Author Topic: Elemental companion wispling attacks  (Read 942 times)

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Offline pearto

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Elemental companion wispling attacks
« on: April 05, 2022, 07:10:04 PM »
Hey there,
Just a quick question -
In Elemental Companion, Lesser Elemental Summoning spell list, level 1 spell, Lesser Wispling = "summons a weak Wispling (see section 6.0). The caster can then control the wispling and/or view the world through its senses by concentrating on it. Wispling uses the Lesser Elemental Force Attack Table 9.3 (ie. it does not consist of proto-elemental material)".
In section 6.0 the combat statistics for a weak gravity wispling (for example) say it has 50SBa(3x)/70SGr (ie. 3 attacks per round with an OB of 50 using the Bash attack table with maximum of small damage or OB of 70 grapple with maximum of small damage).

This seems to be at odds with the spell description of "Wispling uses the Lesser Elemental Force Attack Table".

The two scenarios I can imagine for this are
1. that summoning a wispling (compared to 'naturally occuring' wisplings) changes the attacks it is able to do (from bash to elemental force).

2. that the reference to the elemental force attack table in the spell description is to indicate what attack table the wispling cone attack uses - as the description of elemental force attack tables are for “resolving elemental attacks (eg. bolts, ball, cones, etc, and that the wispling summoned has the regular section 6.0 attacks. The wispling cone attack is mentioned at the bottom of the wispling elemental statistics chart.

Any thoughts or help on this would be much appreciated :)

Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: Elemental companion wispling attacks
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2022, 06:03:39 AM »
I'd go with 2.
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: Elemental companion wispling attacks
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2022, 04:29:40 PM »
Page 97 of the EC has a note that states Elementals may cast an Elemental Cone attack with the OB for the classes of Elementals.  The spell list (4.1.15)  Lesser Elemental Summoning summons the "lower quality" elementals that do not have proto-elemental material, therefore the weakest of the six attack tables

Lesser Elemental
Normal Elemental
Greater Elemental
Minor Elemental
Major Elemental
Superior Elemental

The down side to using the elemental cone attack is that the Elemental loses Concussion Points equal to its level.  Unless the wispling is attacking its opposing elemental and can get slaying crits, it's probably better off with the physical attacks.  There are other bonuses to having the target trapped within the sphere of the elemental (bonus crits, -10 to movement, etc.)
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Offline pearto

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Re: Elemental companion wispling attacks
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2022, 12:32:01 AM »
Cool cool! Thanks for your thoughts Spectre771 and OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol, I appreciate you taking the time :)

Offline Hurin

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Re: Elemental companion wispling attacks
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2022, 09:21:16 AM »
And welcome to the forums, Pearto!
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Offline C.Tozer

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Re: Elemental companion wispling attacks
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2022, 01:42:45 AM »
Just expanding on this quesiton a bit more ....

Curious to get the groups thoughts here - RE the description of;
Elemental Companion, Lesser Elemental Summoning spell list p.38, level 1 spell, Lesser Wispling = "summons a weak Wispling (see section 6.0). The caster can then control the wispling and/or view the world through its senses by concentrating on it. Wispling uses the Lesser Elemental Force Attack Table 9.3 (ie. it does not consist of proto-elemental material)".

Q: can the caster controling the wispling get it to attack with a Lesser Elemental Force Attack AND its melee attacks as per section 6.0 of Elemental Companion using that spell? Obviously not in the same round. Or does it ONLY attack with the Lesser Elemental Force Attack table for that spell? (Pretty sure that pearto means this but wanted to get others opinions)

Part of the reason for querying this is that as per see section 6.0/p.97 (Elemental Companion), a wispling can get x3+ Bash attacks (albeit either Tiny or Small) per round which seemed to me to be pretty over powered for a 1st Level Spell.

Q2: What are peoples thoughts? Are Wisplings over powered or is it just me?

Hey there,
Just a quick question -
In Elemental Companion, Lesser Elemental Summoning spell list, level 1 spell, Lesser Wispling = "summons a weak Wispling (see section 6.0). The caster can then control the wispling and/or view the world through its senses by concentrating on it. Wispling uses the Lesser Elemental Force Attack Table 9.3 (ie. it does not consist of proto-elemental material)".
In section 6.0 the combat statistics for a weak gravity wispling (for example) say it has 50SBa(3x)/70SGr (ie. 3 attacks per round with an OB of 50 using the Bash attack table with maximum of small damage or OB of 70 grapple with maximum of small damage).

This seems to be at odds with the spell description of "Wispling uses the Lesser Elemental Force Attack Table".

The two scenarios I can imagine for this are
1. that summoning a wispling (compared to 'naturally occuring' wisplings) changes the attacks it is able to do (from bash to elemental force).

2. that the reference to the elemental force attack table in the spell description is to indicate what attack table the wispling cone attack uses - as the description of elemental force attack tables are for “resolving elemental attacks (eg. bolts, ball, cones, etc, and that the wispling summoned has the regular section 6.0 attacks. The wispling cone attack is mentioned at the bottom of the wispling elemental statistics chart.

Any thoughts or help on this would be much appreciated :)
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Offline jdale

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Re: Elemental companion wispling attacks
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2022, 10:51:22 AM »
I certainly don't read that spell as granting the wispling the ability to make an additional attack on top of its normal capabilities.
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Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: Elemental companion wispling attacks
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2022, 03:18:26 PM »
You know, if you as the GM considers the Wispling's bash attacks "to be pretty over powered for a 1st level spell", just don't go with it! Regardless of what we think, it's your opinion that counts…
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Elemental companion wispling attacks
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2022, 03:55:05 PM »
Just expanding on this quesiton a bit more ....

Curious to get the groups thoughts here - RE the description of;
Elemental Companion, Lesser Elemental Summoning spell list p.38, level 1 spell, Lesser Wispling = "summons a weak Wispling (see section 6.0). The caster can then control the wispling and/or view the world through its senses by concentrating on it. Wispling uses the Lesser Elemental Force Attack Table 9.3 (ie. it does not consist of proto-elemental material)".

Q: can the caster controling the wispling get it to attack with a Lesser Elemental Force Attack AND its melee attacks as per section 6.0 of Elemental Companion using that spell? Obviously not in the same round. Or does it ONLY attack with the Lesser Elemental Force Attack table for that spell? (Pretty sure that pearto means this but wanted to get others opinions)

Part of the reason for querying this is that as per see section 6.0/p.97 (Elemental Companion), a wispling can get x3+ Bash attacks (albeit either Tiny or Small) per round which seemed to me to be pretty over powered for a 1st Level Spell.

Q2: What are peoples thoughts? Are Wisplings over powered or is it just me?


Q1:  The tables and charts for the Wispling state that is can make a cone attack using the <quality level> attack table, however it loses HP per it's level for each attack.  It basically expends it's own material and sends it out to do damage.  You can certainly allow the caster to use the wispling cone attack every round, but it will kill off the wispling faster.  Sort of like a human slicing his wrist to make a blood attack... eventually the human runs out of blood and is no longer useful.

Q2:  Wisplings are no where near over powered.  (My and my players' opinion of course.)  I have had players use several wisplings as the only magic allowed in our gaming world is 100% from Elemental Companion.  One player always looks for the wispling that gets x4 Tiny Bash (wind and electricity, I believe) so he can get the most attacks.  Maybe 1 or 2 roll results out of 8 to 12 rolls yields a crit result.  If the caster loses concentration, the wispling dissipates.  The NPC doesn't even need to damage the wispling or the caster to end the spell, just distract the caster or get a decent whack on him.  A focused/concentrating spell caster is a juicy target.  There are other elemental summons lists that are far better than wispling.
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!