Topic: How do mages survive?

[Pyske]

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure mages aren't dying left and right in RM games.  I have the feeling I'm overlooking something obvious.

An average mage type is obviously going to have a significantly lower DB available, compared to a fighter.  They can't wear armor or carry a shield.  So, how does a mage avoid getting creamed by the first opponent to get close?

The obvious answer would seem to be "spells", but all the defensive spells I'm seeing are single turn, instant spells (i.e. Bladeturn).  Since mages are limited to one spell a turn, that would seem to mean that the mage doesn't get to cast anything offensive if he's being attacked.

Have I overlooked some sort of option that allows mages to do a better job of defending themselves, or is this an intentional balance point of the system?

[dutch206]

Several things come to mind almost immediately:

1)  The "Full Parry" combat action should be your mage's best friend.  He shouldn't be trying to kill bad guys, he should be trying to hold out until reinforcements arrive.

2)  The old adage "Run away, and you live to fight another day." Was never more true than when you are dealing with a character with 15 hit points.  There is a difference between bravery and stupidity.

3)  Ethics aside, poison is your friend.

4)  Stealth and sneaky behavior will trump youthful enthusiasm every time.

[Fidoric]

And don't forget brains. I think that young mages do need protection ny their combat-oriented brethrens in unsuspected fights. On the other hand, plannification is their best friend in forecast combat (where to hide, how tho act...). And maybe it could be a good thing for them to purchase some ranks in missile weapons in order to give the group a hand in combat while minimizing the risk to be hit.

[Dark Schneider]

Since mages are limited to one spell a turn, that would seem to mean that the mage doesn't get to cast anything offensive if he's being attacked.

For that we have a house rule, you can cast only 1 attack spell per round, but 2 spells are allowed if 1 is not attack type.

[RandalThor]

Let's not forget the Beatles method:

"With a little help from my friends."

Plus, avoidance is the absolutely best way to survive. If they aren't there to get whacked, then they don't get whacked. (Just ask any of the Sopranos.  ) But, of course, they cannot always "not be there" so it is in their best interest - and that of the whole group - that they find/learn/acquire defensive magics as best as they can. Things to increase their DB and AT with minimal affect to their spellcasting are very important.

[Ecthelion]

An average mage type is obviously going to have a significantly lower DB available, compared to a fighter.  They can't wear armor or carry a shield.  So, how does a mage avoid getting creamed by the first opponent to get close?

First thing my mages always tried is not having the opponent get into melee range. Spells like e.g. Leaping are your friend when trying this. And the Shield spell can overcome the restriction concerning shields.

The obvious answer would seem to be "spells", but all the defensive spells I'm seeing are single turn, instant spells (i.e. Bladeturn).  Since mages are limited to one spell a turn, that would seem to mean that the mage doesn't get to cast anything offensive if he's being attacked.

Having a little bit of OB with one melee weapon is a good idea if there is a high probability that the mage will face a melee encounter sooner or later. Of course, trying to develop ranks with a weapon is quite expensive for a mage, but I prefer it to losing my characters  . A little OB offers the chance to do a full parry for some rounds and survice until the fighters can help. Spells like Blur or Shield are also useful when defending like this and last longer than one round, like Bladeturn does.

For quick mages who can cast Firebolt or a similar deadly bolt there is also another option: Fire the bolt when the opponent gets into the 10' Point Blank range, where the bolt gets +35 to the attack, and hope that the opponent gets hurt so badly that he can't attack. As long as he is kept stunned the mage can keep firing his bolts. This is of course quite risky ... but if the mage can't flee or defend himself using a weapon this might be an option.

Finally: Welcome to the forums!

[providence13]

Sometimes they die on the left and sometimes they die on the right too.

About weapons and mages: 9 DP for the 1st weapon slot and 20(!) for the rest...whew.
But, IIRC,  Stikes are 9 too. If someone gets that close, and you absolutely have to, punch them! Or better yet, develop sweeps! Always putting an 85 in Qu helps a little.

Another route to go is Daily # ! Spell Stores, etc.

[providence13]

Also, if you like Training Packages....
City Guard is better than nothing.

[dutch206]

I can't remember who said it, but it's the best advice for playing spellcasters I have ever gotten:

1)  Have your mage buy the best suit of armor he can afford.
2)  Stick it on the largest, meanest humanoid you can find.
3)  Keep him between you and everyone else on the battlefield.

[rafmeister]

     Mages can wear armor: AT2 robes! These can be enchanted to give a DB. Robes do provide protection against animals. A magician can use a shield, most do not. I like to alternate body dev and weapon ranks as an illusionist.

     RMFRP is much better than RM2 for low level mages. Instead of learning lists, and only being able to cast 2 first level spells an RMFRP caster learns ranks in multiple lists. Usually a magician will have 20 spells on ten lists they can use at second level. This is better than the six spells on three lists in RM2. This really helps an illusionist! If you sit back and cast bolt spells, then you are not doing what a magician/illusionist needs to do. Invisibility, movement spells, and detections all help avoid battle.

[Dark Schneider]

Mages can wear armor: AT2 robes! These can be enchanted to give a DB. Robes do provide protection against animals.

And change the AT to 3 or 4.

A magician can use a shield, most do not.

Yes, usually a small wood shield, you can enchant it (+10DB temporaly) with the new spell lists in RMFRP.

I like to alternate body dev and weapon ranks as an illusionist.

Body dev. , what a pain for essence spell users! (15 DP)  :'(

[Ecthelion]

Mages can wear armor: AT2 robes! These can be enchanted to give a DB. Robes do provide protection against animals.

And change the AT to 3 or 4.

How can they change it? Is there any spell in the official RMC or RMSS/RMFRP rules that does allow this (except perhaps an Alchemist's enchantments, which is a different matter)?

[Arioch]

An average mage type is obviously going to have a significantly lower DB available, compared to a fighter.  They can't wear armor or carry a shield.  So, how does a mage avoid getting creamed by the first opponent to get close?

- Using spells to move around and keep themselves out of melee (leaping, leaving, etc)
- Using spells to incapacitate their opponents (sleep, stun, etc)
- Invisibility and or Illusions
- Summoned walls and creatures
- Using spells to raise their defenses (DB enhancements...). I've put this one for last since it's not a very efficent way to defend oneself, it's more of a desperate defense until someone arrives and saves you...

Most of the time they simply do not let any enemy get close to them (which is probably the best thing to do in a fight...).

[Pyske]

Finally: Welcome to the forums!

Thanks.  And thanks to everyone for the feedback.

I'll probably see if I can find Shield and Blur tonight, so I know what lists they're on.

If the game currently under consideration by our group makes, it will be an RM2 game, which sounds like it may make life a little more difficult.

Regardless, the notes about wall and movement spells, and other avoidance techniques, are definitely something I'll do my best to make use of.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

1)  The "Full Parry" combat action should be your mage's best friend.  He shouldn't be trying to kill bad guys, he should be trying to hold out until reinforcements arrive.

I recall a pure-Essence PC who tried that.

Me (GM): "You can perform a full parry with your dagger and get an additional +5."
Player: "How does that work?"
Me: "How much do you have in OB with your dagger?"
Player: "-20."
Me: "..."

[providence13]

I can't speak to RM2.

Shield Mastery is a pretty good List to have for protection.

When you also consider Rune Mastery, Spirit Mastery... Now that I think of it, sure is interesting that the Closed Lists are so useful..?

[Nders]

That is kinda the whole point with them being closed 

[Hurin]

One other thing (or two things, actually) that help a mage survive in my campaigns:

1. Fly
2. Invisibility

It's amazing how few things can hit you when you're invisible and flying 50 feet in the air.

[kevinmccollum]

Let's not forget the Beatles method:

"With a little help from my friends."

I don't know about your games but low level casters are the minority, melee types in the majority. Lesson: stick with a guy who can take hits and hold off creatures while you prep your spells OR hit from the rear. Or run away.

[Mungo]

Hi,

I can only agree with the "put something in between you and the enemy" comments. A Mage is about dealing damage or hindering opponents from far away. If someone comes close, he has a problem. At all levels.

BR Juergen