Topic: RM2 Wizard spell question

[celebdel]

hallo, i'm here to ask about some spells of the Wizard class in the Companion V of the RM2 system.

i'm referring about the Froststaff/Firestaff/Thunderstaff spell but the question is the same for all the 3 spells.

taking as esample the Firestaff spell, the description of the spell says that "....a blast of flame burst from the tip of his Wizarstaff. Treat this as a +20 firebolt....".

my question is: does a Wizard can develop a Directed Spell Firestaff skill?
i hope yes because a +20 bonus bolt i find very inaffective and unuseful....and the cost of the skill for a Wizard doesn't get the game too much overpowering....

i'm basing also on the description of the Bolt spells of the Magician that says (for our firebolt example): "...a bolt of fire is shot from the palm of the caster, results are determined  on the Fire Bolt Table..", in wich is not indicated that a Magician has to develop the Directed Spell Firebolt skill (but i guess is implicitally supposed that a Magician does).

hoping to get the aswer by the Sages of the game (and to be right), i greet u all...

bye

[Maldraedior]

IMHO, it would be pretty useless if you couldn't develop Directed Spells with them.

The list doesn't say you can, but it doesn't say you can't either. Sometimes the wording of the spells leave something to interpretation, but I would always allow a Wizard to develop Directed Spells with them.
The lightning bolt at lvl 11 is going to be pretty nice. It's only 1 level higher than the Magicians, and gets a +20 bonus, but the Wizard needs his staff for it. The Magician simply casts it whenever he likes, so it's not really overpowered to allow Directed Spells.

[markc]

celebde;
 IMO I would allow the caster to use his skill in Directed Spell: Fire Bolt skill as his OB.
MDC

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

[orule]
Yes, a character may develop Directed Spell skill with the various (elemental x)staff spells from the Wizard Staff spell list. The bonus to OB is given because of the greater control over aiming that the Wizard has through using his staff as a conduit for the spell.

Each type of bolt would need to be developed separately just as each elemental bolt spell would have to be developed separately.
[/orule]

[markc]

 Rasyr;
 Are you saying you have to develop Elemental Staff/ Fire Bolt skill or can use use your Directed Energy: Firebolt skill with the staff spell?

MDC

[celebdel]

i think that, by the answer of Rasyr, a Wizard could get 2 soluction (always referring for example to the Firestaff spell):

- develop Directed Spell: Firebolt skill;
- develop Directed Spell: Firestaff skill.

i'd prefere the first option but i'll wait again a Rasyr's answer...

bye

[markc]

 I would also as it is much cleaner and prevents skill bloat.
MDC

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

According to the standard RM rules, if you learn the list Light Law, you have to learn 2 different Directed Spell skills, one for Shock Bolt, and one for Lightning Bolt. The spells are similar, but the core rules says you learn one skill for each. (yes, there are options that say otherwise, but the official ruling goes by the core).

The second paragraph above was saying that the Froststaff, Firestaff, & Thunderstaff spells would follow the same pattern. One list, three different Directed Spell skills because these are different directed attacks.

As for mark's question, the answer is no, you cannot use "Directed Spell: Firebolt" skill with the Firestaff spell. The spells are different, and while the end results are similar, they are not the same spell.

A Shock Bolt from one list is the same as a Shock Bolt from any other list in terms of how it works. A Firebolt is not the same as a Firestaff.

Again -- remember that the Official Ruling given above pertains to the core rules!!! If you are using any options that affect/change the core rules involved in the Ruling, then you need to consider the impact of the option being used on the Ruling.

[celebdel]

so, at the end the answer is that a Wizard for his Wizardstaff spell list has to develop 3 different skills called:

- Directed Spell: Froststaff;
- Directed Spell: Firestaff;
- Directed Spell: Thunderstaff.

is it ok?

bye

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Yes, correct.

[munchy]

As far as I remember we handled it that way, too, and it did not cause any problems. It is just reasonable, a magician also has to learn separate skills for his elemental attack spells, so why should the wizard be any different. That profession is still quite strong enough as it is. Do not remind me of those Power Word  ... 

[rdanhenry]

I would think that "Treat this as a [+20] firebolt" would include "use the Directed Spells skill bonus for Fire Bolt" when making the attack. The only time it is likely to matter if you make the Wizard learn Directed Spells: Firestaff is if he wants to use a regular magic staff which throws Fire Bolts. Why this should be harder for him than for a Magician, given that it is more like his normal casting, is unclear to me. I'd just follow the wording and make it exactly like Fire Bolt except for ways specifically mentioned in the spell list.

[pastaav]

I would think that "Treat this as a [+20] firebolt" would include "use the Directed Spells skill bonus for Fire Bolt" when making the attack. The only time it is likely to matter if you make the Wizard learn Directed Spells: Firestaff is if he wants to use a regular magic staff which throws Fire Bolts. Why this should be harder for him than for a Magician, given that it is more like his normal casting, is unclear to me. I'd just follow the wording and make it exactly like Fire Bolt except for ways specifically mentioned in the spell list.

It all depends on how you decide that the magic staff which throws Fire Bolts work. In the absence of the Firestaff spells you can think magic staff which throws Fire Bolts work like a Firestaff, yet with the spell present it is IMO more reasonable to think that a magic staff which throws Fire Bolts will give the user the option to send fire bolts from his palm and not from the magic staff itself.

[yammahoper]

Attacks cast from an item attack at the items level.  The level of an item is equal to the highest spell neded to make it.  Thus a wand of shock bolts which requires a level 5 spell to make has five ranks in directed spells, or a +15 bonus.  The caster only adds his catagory skill to the bonus to figure out total OB.

This makes items very nice at low levels, and less valuable at higher levels (except for the high level fighter with ranks in attune, noting the low level attacks the fighter will suffer even at great dev expenditure).