Topic: Who sees what problems? want advice

[Fornitus]

 Ok.  I'm looking for thoughts or opinions on magic I'm using with a character of mine.  Here goes....(we use RM2 and Comps)

  Chip is a 9th lvl Arcainist Soul Swapper.

He uses  Mind Domination-Mind Invasion (3rd)with RCI will power battles to beat down the targets will for future reistance rolls.

Then Mind Dom-Transferal (6th) to jump into the new body.

After obtaining new edger suit, I use a couple Daily I items.... 
   First- Lifekeeping   (helps bind me to new body and gives me bonus
                                vs cancel/dispel/uncurse/reisting owner/ect...)
   Second- Familiar's Law-Familiar (9th)
                               (yes this is suposto be only 35% of casters mass
                                 but it was rulled the mass issue is so caster
                                 may run familiar as if it were casters own body
                                 However, I AM already in total control of body
                                 so this only drops my -50 to act to -30  (+20)
                                 Also if I'm removed from body against my will
                                 Familiar spell is automaticaly broke with nasty
                                 side effects for me )
   Third-Contingency-High lvl Dispel if below 0 hp. (if knocked out I go
                                 back to my form beford we both die. Hopefuly)
Then old body gets Preservation and a Shrink for easy transport.
Lifekeeping is recast w/ prep as needed and before sleep.
New edgar suit is only equiped with secondary items in   case "accidentaly" leave new body somewhere not planed.

  Looking for Opinions on all aspects of my method
    "How to build a better Body in 5 easy steps"
           
   

                                thanks   Fornitus

[Arioch]

Hmmmmm... wouldn't Lifekeeping also prevent the Transferral, keeping your soul in your body?

[Fornitus]

No beacuse the lifekeeping is not cast on my original body at all
Just on the new body after I take possession.

[Arioch]

Oh! Now I've got it! 
Then the only problem is that you'll be at 50% of action in the other body (at least, this is how Transferral works in RMFRP, I don't know if in RMC is the same).

[TomOBedlam]

He uses  Mind Domination-Mind Invasion (3rd)with RCI will power battles to beat down the targets will for future reistance rolls.

Then Mind Dom-Transferal (6th) to jump into the new body.

I dont have the books with me. What I would check one extra time though, is if the "beating down the targets will for future resistance rolls" will work. Especcially if it will keep the targets will low for a long time.

   First- Lifekeeping   (helps bind me to new body and gives me bonus
                                vs cancel/dispel/uncurse/reisting owner/ect...)

I dont buy that interpretation at all. Lifekeeping keeps the soul in the body (It's "own" body? that part is up to the GM) when you sustain physical trauma that would force it to go visit the big farm in the sky. No bonus against Cancel, Dispell, Uncurse, Resisting owner. Only in keeping the soul inside the body if you get badly hurt.

   Second- Familiar's Law-Familiar (9th)
                               (yes this is suposto be only 35% of casters mass
                                 but it was rulled the mass issue is so caster
                                 may run familiar as if it were casters own body
                                 However, I AM already in total control of body
                                 so this only drops my -50 to act to -30  (+20)
                                 Also if I'm removed from body against my will
                                 Familiar spell is automaticaly broke with nasty
                                 side effects for me )

No go. You have a body with another persons spirit trapped inside it. You cant make that thing into a familiar (Not with the normal spell lists at least. Would be interesting tho). Familiar spells always had the feeling of partnership for me, in this case its a violation. With that reasoning a dragon could make the king its familiar and rule the country for ever.

   Third-Contingency-High lvl Dispel if below 0 hp. (if knocked out I go
                                 back to my form beford we both die. Hopefuly)

Perhaps. But can't you just "cancel" the spell yourself? And didnt you think you insured yourself agains dispell with the lifekeeping? Surely they both will be cast at the same level.

Then old body gets Preservation and a Shrink for easy transport.

Why the need for preservation? It's still alive. Shrink, again, no go. Its one of those spells that require a willing target. And unless you find a target that feels that beeing shrunk for "easy transport" by his enslaver, I dont think thats going to happen.

[TomOBedlam]

After speaking to friends that actually have the books, I find there are more issues than what I listed.
In general, I would reccomend rethinking your entire character concept.

[cedher]

Mind invasion would not work for reducing the resistance rolls of the target, but it would take up 50% of the casters activities if he wanted to keep it during the rest of the time.

Transferal would let the target resist every 10 minutes, so there would not be any need for any lifekeeping to keep your old body as there is no chance the spell would last long enough for that.
Transferal also reduces the casters actions to 50%, and if he keeps the spell above he would be down to zero or at most 25% activity if he has a generous gamemaster.

Familiar - I will not even comment that

Dispel, the caster can stop the spell at any time, if unconsious the spell would stop automatically (as i would interpret it). If the any of the bodys die both souls take an absolution true, a dispel would not be in time to stop that in an instant kill situation.

For longer transferals, see the level 30 spell, Transferal True

[Fornitus]

Ok 

Arioch- yea this low lvl version leaves a -50 to act whitch is why some of the
           other spells help.(just help not negate totaly)

Tom- you are correct, the only benifit that lasts is if I can break a difference of
        149 between our totals(me and the target), but if I cant get that on a
        good roll then I'm only out 3pp so its worth the try.

        Second-looking at lifekeeping it dose say the spell must be cast on a
        target within 2 min of "death". Dose that mean the spell automaticaly
        fails if target is still alive and only injured or close to death?
        It also says it prevents the soul of a "dead" body from leaving...
        so since the owners soul is not in residence (he is in my body) isnt that
        "dead" like absolution? And my soul is the only soul in this "dead" body
        (no soul=dead?)

         Third- as for the familiar thing, again, thier soul is gone so it has no
         reistance. I agree if thier soul comes back Familar spell automaticaly
         fails (no chance of continuing) since you cant familar a person. But
         untill their soul returns its just a 180 lb mindless slab of meat.

         And maybe its a house rule or something that a pc's spells work extra
         good against a previously cast spell by same pc. obvously, this is
         almiost never nessasary. The intent with the contingency is in case I
         get knocked below 0 TH but not killed outright. It sounds like you
         would have the Transferal cancel if I'm only unconcious in the new body?

          The Shrink is 7th lvl so is not self only. This is on my REAL body with
           the other persons soul "traped" inside. Cant just leave it lying around...
          (did that ONCE early on. GM was nice and only a fue broke bones
           from a game of "kick the drunk"   kids...)

Cedher - This character is an arcainist so has Soul Destruction and Mind
             Domination list. Both have a verson of Transferral. The MD verson
             only alows a RR once/day.

             You are right, I dont try to keep invasion and transferal running at
              same time. I just try Invasion at first in case i get lucky.
             Running both would insure death by Light Manuv with those neg's
             all the time.

 Thanks for the thoughts. Still want other oppinions even if it just "feels"
 out-of-ballance. 
         

[Marc R]

Only long term methods I can think of for really doing a number on the host body's will are:

Use Evil lists to beat their Will related temp stats down to single digits. They'll never get any experience, so they'll never re-build their stats. So if you pummel their mental stats down to say 1, you'll be will contesting with the equivalent of a smart squirril, if you loose, the dice gods hate you.

Or, if you like a final job with no interference. . ."Dark Absolution" the host soul. That leaves you an empty, uncontested vessel.

[Fornitus]

Actualy  LM  that is kinda what is going on if I think I'll get back w/ the body I
went in.

I purchased a body from an evil npc wizard. It was the body of an aprentice of
his that internilized a spell that left him a burned out husk with no one realy
home. This is my around town body If I think I'm going into a cant escape
situation I just borrow someone elses body to leave behind

[Marc R]

Be wary of people with lore spells if you're leaving that hunk of evidence behind.

I'd dark absolution the new body, and ride it around. . . as long as your original, proper body is alive, you inherently bounce back to it per all the spells listed. (Or, your contingency would do it for those that do not.)

Of course, if someone dark absolutions you in that body you'd be dead.

This is one of those "Good ideas" that villians have that always turn out to bite them in the "ahem".

Like, 9 out of 10 times, a murder where the killer is killed, everyone shrugs and moves on. . .if you develop a pattern of killings, or kill the wrong person, and a caster gets involved.

The moment a lore indicates anything remotely like a body jumping assassin is on the loose, it will break open the gates of whup arse.

This is capial "E" evil behavior, much like using "Demonic possession" to make patsy killers. It will get a really over the top reply.

Now, you may say "But I'm not an assassin". . . .OK, if you merely walk around in the wrong place "riding" this body, and someone casts a lore on you, or on the area after you left (for all those pesky past lores) the same effect will pop up.

i.e. why is there a body jumping monster running around?

I'd add a "Misfeel True" to the above, considering this smells like a high magic world, any GM worth their salt will have you hip deep in paladins and witch hunters shortly (No offense, but "low key" and "Player character" rarely go hand in hand, so I'd give you no more than 3 sessions to attract someone's attention.). . .with the misfeel true, perhaps you can stay under the radar of the kind of people who'd be attracted to this level of magical evil for a while longer. (A witch might be worse than a paladin, come to think of it.)

[TomOBedlam]

        Second-looking at lifekeeping it dose say the spell must be cast on a
        target within 2 min of "death". Dose that mean the spell automaticaly
        fails if target is still alive and only injured or close to death?
        It also says it prevents the soul of a "dead" body from leaving...
        so since the owners soul is not in residence (he is in my body) isnt that
        "dead" like absolution? And my soul is the only soul in this "dead" body
        (no soul=dead?)

Lifekeeping does not protect against absolutions. Nor is there anything that indicates that it would help with this. If your GM allows it, go ahead, have fun. Why not just houserule a spell called "Pnwz0r" or something, that allows you to have multiple bodies with no RR for the targets, and you get to go back to a previous save?

         Third- as for the familiar thing, again, thier soul is gone so it has no
         reistance. I agree if thier soul comes back Familar spell automaticaly
         fails (no chance of continuing) since you cant familar a person. But
         untill their soul returns its just a 180 lb mindless slab of meat.

No, its not. The targets soul is in your body. Besides - you would have to have a _very_ lenient GM to allow you to have "a slab of meat" as a Familiar. It's against the stated text (if you want to nitpick about phrasing in the rules), its also agains the intention of the spell (if you want to play in a reasonable world). I will again reffer to the spell "pwnz0r" that I suggest you create.

          The Shrink is 7th lvl so is not self only. This is on my REAL body with
           the other persons soul "traped" inside. Cant just leave it lying around...
          (did that ONCE early on. GM was nice and only a fue broke bones
           from a game of "kick the drunk"   kids...)

Yes, its not self only. But its one of those spells where you need a WILLING target. (Someone help me out, what is the class of spells called?). And sure, it's your body, but right now you have swapped it with someone that is trapped in there. You cant have it both ways.

             You are right, I dont try to keep invasion and transferal running at
              same time. I just try Invasion at first in case i get lucky.
             Running both would insure death by Light Manuv with those neg's
             all the time.

Mind invasion is a spell that is active, and requires you to concentrate on it. If your GM allows you to cast a second spell while concentrating on another with a "light maneuver" then you are truly powerful. I wouldnt even allow you to cast the second spell.

Thanks for the thoughts. Still want other oppinions even if it just "feels"
 out-of-ballance. 

In all honesty it feels like an blatant attempt at abusing the rules, and not even a good one.

[Fornitus]

 LM- Yea I've started to shrink my old form and relocate it somewhere I think
        is safe.
        E-V-I-L is realy the right word. When only 2nd lvl Chip once got
        "TURNED" by trying to pick up a Holy Weapon. Didn't even make contact
        with it just ran screaming into the woods for a while .
         At least I was in my original form at the time, otherwise.......
         I'll look for some misfeel spells or something, currently I just dont go to
         the capital or major citys. Chip gets pain and hp loss if I try to get to
         close to a church or Holy place
         Of course I dont take church goers or such, only theives and such.It
         would be verry bad if a diety took enough offince to sick a Paladin or 3
         with a Holy Quest after me!!!
          And yes, I've had a couple close encounters with Cleric types. I try to
          get my party to seek adventure across the realm after such meetings

 Tom- I'll bring up the wrong soul in wrong body issue to my GM next time. He
         will probaly continue to alow it with this one but not others if the group
         agrees with your interpitation.(lifekeeping) Either way I never thought it
         made Absoultion proof or something. Just a small RR bonus. Absoultion
         is high lvl enough I would have to roll good to survive even with this
         bonus.

         If Absolved while in wrong body do I return to my body or only after
         Absoulition time frame?  Dark Absoultion of course and I'm toast just
         anyone else

         7th lvl shrink is F not P so it can be cast as a weapon. Shrink the
         charging monster so it wont kill you. It might bet a RR bonus and
         if it saves, caster gets club to head

         Never tried or intended to have invasion and transferal at same time.
         Invasion is compleatly resolved one way or other before transfer.

         Anyway, it helps for latter NPC's for a PC to run some of the unusual
         types of characters. Lets you see the problems and how stuff should
         be handeled

[Skaran]

In my campaign the goddess of Death has a special place where she likes to put people who have "Avoided their appointments" this looks like a case where she would be especially interested.

[Fornitus]

ACK!! 

So, Skaran, you mean I'd be hunted by BOTH sides in your campain?
Well no one survives forever

[Marc R]

note the "Witch" reference in my post above. . . .

This sort of behavior would definitely attract a lot of attention on all ends. . .

Are other villians interested in how you do it?
Do they feel threatened?
Are you "on their turf" without permission?
Do they mistake you for a demon and want to trap you so they can use you?
Are the villians, by nature paranoid and greedy, apt to jump to conclusions or just decide you're a threat, or a pawn in their games?

[Fornitus]

LM-so far i've avoided most other casters for any length of time. My party knows and the way this evil group stays together is beacuse of loyality to the group (school) that we all were taught at. Bad form to kill a fellow of the same Alma Matter. Even at the school I was taught in secret as fue have the appitude for this.

There is ,however, a Grand Duke (cousin to King) is this campain that had me kidnapped once. Luckily he is as evil as me so no paladins or good clerics came to help him figgure it out. I escaped with help, but he wants to figure me out so I'm not dead  -  yet.....

[TomOBedlam]

         7th lvl shrink is F not P so it can be cast as a weapon. Shrink the
         charging monster so it wont kill you. It might bet a RR bonus and
         if it saves, caster gets club to head

It's F in Spell law #1200, in later versions (looking at #5522) they changed it to U, as in willing target only.
The time limit of 10 minutes/level may be an issue though.

Now I have my books, and I realize that the "RCI will power battles to beat down the targets will for future reistance rolls" is actually the rules for characters trying to control intelligent items. Thats some heavy houseruling there, Robin.

As a GM I would dissalow most of your tricks, but if you and your group like it, why not create a new spell list. Or do it the real way.
1. Swap bodies.
2. Absolution on your old one.
3. Preservation to keep it alive (or just feeding it would work)
4. Shrink for transport if you need it (At this time there is no one at home to resist, just a slab of meat with a soul on holiday)
5. Just remember to cancel the transferal if you feel low on HP.

This version would ony require the GM to be kind to you in regards to what happens if you do an Absolution on the guy you swapped bodies with (i.e your old body). I would probably allow it. (But add a chance of demonic posession just to be nasty).

There is no way you can get around the 50% activity though. Unless you cast the level 30 spell, Transferral true, and then it would take you at least 50 months to get to 100% activity.

And No. You cant be your own familiar.

[Arioch]

(At this time there is no one at home to resist, just a slab of meat with a soul on holiday)

LoL! 

Another solution would be stealing the target's matrix, clone him and then transfer your soul into the clone body with the Simulacra list from Construct Companion.

[Fornitus]

Tom- I see the reasoning for them changing it to U from F. After last post started thinking about it and it smelled more and more D+D'ish. Guess I do need RMC or something newer

Your close on the demonic poss- Body gets left in circle vs evil. Otherwise any wandering spirit or whatever could say "OH!! LOOKIE HERE......". The evil aura probaly attracts them.


I dont dare Absolve my old form even if I could (dont have list-not cleric) beacuse I think that would wipe out whatever small conection returns me to my real form when Transferral ends. Then we both die

The month/pt of controll kinda makes sense. My GM has me spend DP on each form type for manuver rolls. ie..Female/Male/Obease Male/ect....


Anyway, thanks for the input