Topic: New RMU profession: Arcane Mage

[Thot]

Voilá my first attempt to use the profession creation rules in RMU. This is very simply done, to see if I got the rules right. Feel free to correct, comment, object or freak out.

Arcane Mages are Magicians who have access to all three realms of power. This enormous flexiblity narrows their mind for certain skill categories, obviously, but the years of study in early youth do eventually pay off, for most of them. Their base lists are the same as for regular Magicians. As they are also capable of using Channeling magic, they need to be explicit about which deity they pray to.

Two additional realms of power (+10 aptitude cost), making this a hybrid profession and thus reducing cost for arcane magic by two steps,

countered by skill cost adjustments 

Animal cost +2 steps,
Combat Training for all weapon categories, cost +2 steps (x3 for combat skills)  +6 steps,
Performance Art +2 steps



Profession Skill Costs

Animal   5/7
Awareness   4/6
BattleExpertise   7/10
BodyDiscipline   6/8
Brawn   6/8
CombatExpertise   7/10
Combat   
-Training1   7/10
-Training2   9/12
-Training3   15/20
-Training4   15/20
Composition   2/4
Crafting   3/4
Delving   1/2
Environmental   4/6
Gymnastic   4/6
Lore   1/3
MagicalExpertise   1/2
Medical   3/4
MentalDiscipline   2/4
Movement   4/6
PerformanceArt   3/5
PowerManip   2/3
Science   2/4
Social   3/4
Spells   
-Base/Open   1/2
-RitualMagic   1/3
-Closed   2/4
-Arcane   3/5
-Restricted   6/8
Subterfuge   6/8
Technical   5/7
Vocation   3/4

[jdale]

I'd be cautious about boosting Combat Training to even higher costs than it has for the least martial professions (e.g. lay healer, illusionist). At some point it becomes meaningless because characters will never buy those skills and it becomes free aptitudes. Is there a reason this profession should find it even harder to learn those things than those other professions? Especially when it is a modification of the Magician and not of the Illusionist?

As for the Arcane aspect, that's a reasonable interpretation but there's no official answer yet as to how we will handle it (and won't be until arcane magic is properly introduced for RMU).

[Thot]

I'd be cautious about boosting Combat Training to even higher costs than it has for the least martial professions (e.g. lay healer, illusionist). At some point it becomes meaningless because characters will never buy those skills and it becomes free aptitudes.

Yes I found this odd as well, since one of them was already at the maximum cost, but I thought, let's try it, it's just an excercise at this point – created mostly to see if I get the rules right.

Though the general concept (not necessarily the details) grows on me as I think about it.

Is there a reason this profession should find it even harder to learn those things than those other professions? Especially when it is a modification of the Magician and not of the Illusionist?

I figured spending so much time in their youth contemplating about various forms of magic would make them somewhat extremely bookwormish. But of course, those 6 steps could easily come from somewhere else, such as Body Discipline (2 steps, new cost 9/12) Brawn (2 steps, new cost 9/12), and Gymnastic (2 steps, new cost 6/8), and returning to the Magician's combat training costs (5/7, 6/8, 9/12, and 15/20).

As for the Arcane aspect, that's a reasonable interpretation but there's no official answer yet as to how we will handle it (and won't be until arcane magic is properly introduced for RMU).

The two-step discount is directly from the book, page 250.

[jdale]

>The two-step discount is directly from the book, page 250.

It just assumes they are being treated as a three-realm hybrid rather than having a single realm of arcane. I don't know whether we will do one of those things or something different. Like I said, it's a reasonable interpretation, there just isn't a canonical answer.

[Thot]

>The two-step discount is directly from the book, page 250.

It just assumes they are being treated as a three-realm hybrid rather than having a single realm of arcane. I don't know whether we will do one of those things or something different. Like I said, it's a reasonable interpretation, there just isn't a canonical answer.

Well, I called it "Arcane Mage", but as decribed, it really is about having access to Channeling, Essence, and Mentalism at the same time. There aren't any RMU Arcane spell lists yet anway.

[tbigness]

With Arcane Spell list then the Arcane spells on this list would be Base and open with Closed based on that. I May re-arrange the arcane spells as base/open/closed cost with other spells as cost of Arcane.

[jdale]

With Arcane Spell list then the Arcane spells on this list would be Base and open with Closed based on that. I May re-arrange the arcane spells as base/open/closed cost with other spells as cost of Arcane.

That's interesting. The arcanist as a character who actually has trouble with the realms approach and finds those spells difficult, albeit possible, while having good facility with arcane lists.

[Thot]

With Arcane Spell list then the Arcane spells on this list would be Base and Open with Closed based on that. I May re-arrange the arcane spells as base/open/closed cost with other spells as cost of Arcane.

So you'd basically just turn Arcane into a fourth realm that is sort of seperated from the other three? I also agree that is an interesting approach.

Would it then be possible to make a profession which has (easy) access to all four kinds of magic?

[Elrich Maltah]

Would it then be possible to make a profession which has (easy) access to all four kinds of magic?

In the old days (i.e., RM2) , that was called an Archmage.

[MisterK]

Would it then be possible to make a profession which has (easy) access to all four kinds of magic?

In the old days (i.e., RM2) , that was called an Archmage.

Yes, but in the old days, Arcane was not a realm as we know them - there were no open/closed/base arcane lists, just 'arcane lists' which were basically treasure troves.

Personal opinion here: I preferred it that way. I never liked the RMSS arcane realm.

[Dreven1]

I love the idea of Arcane, it just needed to be play tested MUCH more than it was.
It added flavor of a raw, unwieldy, extremely powerful source for magic.  The risk was sometimes NOT worth the reward lol

I would also caution you about "scope creep".  Talent law (lord help us) did this.  It was the WORST.  Players started off sometimes at level 1 but the equiv of a level 10 or 15.

I have an 18 page homebrew book of "restrictions" that inhibits, pulls back, restricts and modifies the entire Talent and Flaw book to be more balanced and playable. I did the same with the "Arcane Companion" however it didnt need NEARLY as much work to balance.

A good rule of thumb, if you introduce something, and after a while ALL players adopt it and stop playing or diverging from it, it is a problem.
Example: ALL fighters chose "Blessed by a war god" and all casters chose "Eloquence" and "Power" after about a year of introducing Talent Law to my group.  I wont go into detail about these monstrosities but suffice to say, they are restricted now.

Hope this helps!!

[tbigness]

I actually liked Arcane Law for RMSS. Not many went that way and the one that did though versatile with spell selection had to worry in other ways (combat, stealth, perception, Influence) to say the least. The Arcane healing was not as good especially at low levels to boot. But it was a fun arc. I liked to use this for the Big bads and for Arcane Hunters to keep spell casters in line with the type of magic used (Evil, Necromantic, Void) Type magic.

[nash]

I actually liked Arcane Law for RMSS. Not many went that way and the one that did though versatile with spell selection had to worry in other ways (combat, stealth, perception, Influence) to say the least. The Arcane healing was not as good especially at low levels to boot. But it was a fun arc. I liked to use this for the Big bads and for Arcane Hunters to keep spell casters in line with the type of magic used (Evil, Necromantic, Void) Type magic.

I was a big fan of the RMSS Arcane Companion too.   Arcanist and Chaotic (especially Chaotic) were pretty much the two most popular professions at my table.

Personally I think the RMU Arcane companion should take the best of both RM2 and RMSS Arcane:
 - Open / Closed / Base Arcane with associated professions
 - Esoteric Arcane; for the fun RM2 Arcane

The problem with RM2 style arcane is they made great lists to read and for people to hunt for in a campaign... but didn't get a lot of use.  But fantastic plot and rare usage.

RMSS Arcane was bad because it made arcane a little too vanilla; so combine them both.

* nash would propose to write the book; if he had more time. ;-)

[nash]

I should add, there could also be an Esoteric Arcane caster - The Arch Mage was a pretty popular profession is my understanding.

[jaesyk]

I too am a big fan of the RMSS Arcane Companion. I would like to see a RMU version of this companion. In my gaming group it was the Arcanist and Magehunter that were the favorites.

[katastrophe]

Since as I understand the RMU class rules there are no longer prime stats for characters the hybrids and eventually the arcane classes would be far more viable even at low levels.

[nash]

Since as I understand the RMU class rules there are no longer prime stats for characters the hybrids and eventually the arcane classes would be far more viable even at low levels.

RMSS used average of the realm stats, while RMU uses lowest of the realm stats; that's really going to hurt RMU Arcane users.

We always used fixed DP for RMSS, so we were probably unintentionally boosting arcane casters.

[Hurin]

The RM2 Archmage (the original gangster) used average too.

[Thot]

I have grown weak and have started looking into the playtest files again after so many years. In Treasure Law, I read about an "Extra Realm" talent, which does the same as the profession from my OP (offering an additional or even two additional realms of magic to a spellcaster).  In the beta Creature Law, that talent is called Hybrid (I or II), and costs 25 or 50 DP.

I would say for most character concepts, using that talent is the more preferable option to creating a new profession, unless you only play for very few levels.

[jdale]

We removed the talent and made the cost part of the aptitude calculations for creating hybrid professions.