Author Topic: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?  (Read 828 times)

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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« on: September 29, 2022, 01:06:23 AM »
Big Bad sets a trap for the party
1. Replaces himself with a decoy
2. Lures the party to a location
3. Spies on them to assess their level of threat to him
4. Places a number of cursed items on the decoy. These items are 3 magic rings, a sword, a scrying amulet. All have a  cursed items have a benefit and annoying drawback.

Eg. A wolf ring in reads hearing and smell perception but causes wearer to howl to the fullest moon and attracts wolves and makes the user think he is a wolf. The sword is +10 but causes the attacker to make an RR vs 15th lvl or they attack allies that are close by. Another ring allows waterbreathing but causes the wearer to be illuminated at night like an angler fish. The scrying amulet is a +1 spell adder but allows the wearer to be spied upon and mind controlled by a lvl 15 evil mage.

Fun or annoying and too unfun for the players?

Offline RandalThor

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2022, 09:42:09 AM »
1 - 3. = Great, makes sense - so long as the big bad already knows they are coming and all that jazz.
4. =
Fun or annoying and too unfun for the players?
JMO.

A single cursed item is likely all that is needed.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Scratch that. Power attracts the corruptible.

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Offline Jengada

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2022, 11:41:25 AM »
I'd say overkill, personally. One question I would ask is, could the party survive if all of the items were triggered at once - wolves, a party member attacking the others, and a 15th level evil magician mind-controlling another member. That's a lot to cope with, unless the party is big and there are enough others to deal with these things.

Besides, you can always save the other items for other story lines.
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Offline EltonJ

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2022, 11:58:00 AM »
I agree with Jengada.  You can save some of these cursed items for other story lines.  I also agree with him that it seems to overkill.

Offline pastaav

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2022, 02:02:16 PM »
How can the big bad stay in business if he/she uses so many cursed items just to determine if somebody is an enemy?

I think the risk is great that the players are not impressed by the many cursed items but feel like the enemy/GM is cheating.
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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2022, 04:06:26 PM »
Good advice here.
will dial it back and settle on one item to start and see how it impacts on the party.
Maybe the scrying amulet could be triggered only in the presence/close proximity of the bad guy and have a limited range so acts as more of a warning signal if they are close to his base. Same with the sword.
mind control too OP and unfair - scrap this for sure.
some of the items might remain inactive or dormant until put on by a spell caster and it scrambles their spell casting abilities? less annoying but still annoying.
If the items gives a decent benefit they might need to choose between spells or the ability but not able to have both? thoughts?

The badguy has lured them there and now can have minions waiting to track them perhaps.
or just spring a trap on them when they leave. Job done.

Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2022, 04:13:39 PM »
i quite like the wolf ring, its gives a benefit and drawbacks. The drawbacks could only trigger if the user fails their attunement roll making it dangerous to use but if they make their roll then it functions as a ring of wolf control. :) so has a built in defence against non-spell users or low level spell users trying to use it.

the other rings could have a limited number of charges to balance them and just make them useful without a drawback. or just have some corruption effect over time due to their evil nature/purpose.

Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2022, 04:23:02 PM »
I think it also depends on the setting. If cursed items have been encountered before, then the players have fair warning to show a little caution with new finds. If these were the first, it'd seem unfairly out of the blue.
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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2022, 07:05:02 PM »
one cursed item and 4 fake items. he was a decoy after all so would not have placed his prized items on the decoy. he just needed to look like him.

Offline Jengada

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2022, 12:13:45 PM »
For the mind control amulet, I would ask what connects it to that particular evil mage. Did he/she make it? Do they hold a partner item? And as you note, does it have a range? Scrying and control at unlimited distance would be massively powerful.
I ask these because my players would probably immediately turn their attention to finding that mage, once they discovered the amulet's power. And when they did, if they killed the mage, they would possibly have the same mind control powers the mage had. Now the cursed item is a boon to the party. It all actually sounds like a really great plot line, if that's what you want. Or a distraction, if it's not what you want.

Good advice here.
will dial it back and settle on one item to start and see how it impacts on the party.
Maybe the scrying amulet could be triggered only in the presence/close proximity of the bad guy and have a limited range so acts as more of a warning signal if they are close to his base. Same with the sword.
mind control too OP and unfair - scrap this for sure.
some of the items might remain inactive or dormant until put on by a spell caster and it scrambles their spell casting abilities? less annoying but still annoying.
If the items gives a decent benefit they might need to choose between spells or the ability but not able to have both? thoughts?

The badguy has lured them there and now can have minions waiting to track them perhaps.
or just spring a trap on them when they leave. Job done.
We ask the hard questions here, because they keep us too busy to worry about the hard questions in the real world, and we can go with the answers we like the best.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2022, 04:17:05 PM »
I put bad-guy-appropriate items on my baddies and it's up to the players/PCs to decide if they want to use them or destroy them.  For example, the Skeleton "boss" had a silver torq and the cohort had a matching silver ring.  The silver ring was Ring of Command to the wearer of the torq.  The torq-wearer can try RR but resisting the command of the ring wearer results in a Shock Crit.   So the PC has to decide to obey the command or get zapped.

It wasn't beyond reason to think that the undead creature and the dude working with the undead would have items that probably aren't all that friendly to be using.  The skeleton also had an unholy sword that heals undead, but when wielded by non-undead, the wielder takes a Cold Crit.  Is that a cursed item or just a weapon meant for undead?  The player is loving it because he's making his PC try to figure out why he's getting Cold Crits.  He loves the damage the weapon deals, but he hasn't figured out why he's taking damage too.

The real fun began when my daughter's PC had the ring and her bf's PC had the torq.  She made his PC do a lot of things to make up for all the crap his PC had put the party through.

The items you listed aren't really cursed.  They have a benefit and a drawback.  The players decide if they want to deal with the drawback.  That's like rolling on the Special Abilities background table.  If they were truly cursed items with all negative effects and no positive and they can't be removed (to me is a genuine curse), then I would limit the number of items.  Again, if your Big Bad Guy is "Malkevinin the Curser of Souls," then perhaps he in particular would be loaded with cursed items.
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Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2022, 04:29:16 PM »
I put bad-guy-appropriate items on my baddies and it's up to the players/PCs to decide if they want to use them or destroy them.  For example, the Skeleton "boss" had a silver torq and the cohort had a matching silver ring.  The silver ring was Ring of Command to the wearer of the torq.  The torq-wearer can try RR but resisting the command of the ring wearer results in a Shock Crit.   So the PC has to decide to obey the command or get zapped.

It wasn't beyond reason to think that the undead creature and the dude working with the undead would have items that probably aren't all that friendly to be using.  The skeleton also had an unholy sword that heals undead, but when wielded by non-undead, the wielder takes a Cold Crit.  Is that a cursed item or just a weapon meant for undead?  The player is loving it because he's making his PC try to figure out why he's getting Cold Crits.  He loves the damage the weapon deals, but he hasn't figured out why he's taking damage too.

The real fun began when my daughter's PC had the ring and her bf's PC had the torq.  She made his PC do a lot of things to make up for all the crap his PC had put the party through.

The items you listed aren't really cursed.  They have a benefit and a drawback.  The players decide if they want to deal with the drawback.  That's like rolling on the Special Abilities background table.  If they were truly cursed items with all negative effects and no positive and they can't be removed (to me is a genuine curse), then I would limit the number of items.  Again, if your Big Bad Guy is "Malkevinin the Curser of Souls," then perhaps he in particular would be loaded with cursed items.

thanks for your input. yes technically not cursed but double edged.
imo magic items with some uses and drawbacks are more interesting and gives the players some hard decisions about weighing up when to use them.
i quite like items that reveal their drawback over time since the player is likely going to hold onto it longer instead of seek out the nearest item expert/alchemist type to remove the curse.
i also like the drawback pf corruption over time that might require an RR vs the item if its used against its intended purpose or it could even start to influence the wearer to complete its goals.

eg, the ring of wolf control will cause lycanthropy over time. the more it is used the higher the chance the curse is triggered.

Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2022, 04:21:37 AM »
have settled on this item...
Mage Slayer Blade (+10 magical short sword/slaying vs spell users)<< Delivers double damage and an 'A' Cold critical when it strikes a spell user in addition to any other criticals. is cold to the touch. attunement check or take an a cold critical if user not successfully attuned. Drawback= friendslayer/when you fumble in addition to fumbling you deliver an 'A' cold critical to one random ally in range. Fumbles on 1-4.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2022, 06:12:13 AM »
have settled on this item...
Mage Slayer Blade (+10 magical short sword/slaying vs spell users)<< Delivers double damage and an 'A' Cold critical when it strikes a spell user in addition to any other criticals. is cold to the touch. attunement check or take an a cold critical if user not successfully attuned. Drawback= friendslayer/when you fumble in addition to fumbling you deliver an 'A' cold critical to one random ally in range. Fumbles on 1-4.

I'm in the same boat as you.  I love when the stronger magical items do have a drawback.  Handing out only strong magical items just makes for OP PCs and power creep.  I like to balance out the stronger items.  It also provides a good background story if players want to investigate why this drawback is part of the item.  Was the creator not that good?  Did he goof up in the enchanting process and the blade misfires and hits anyone?  Was it intentionally added as a trick to get even with an enemy?
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!

Offline MisterK

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2022, 08:31:04 AM »
I'm in the same boat as you.  I love when the stronger magical items do have a drawback.  Handing out only strong magical items just makes for OP PCs and power creep.  I like to balance out the stronger items.  It also provides a good background story if players want to investigate why this drawback is part of the item.  Was the creator not that good?  Did he goof up in the enchanting process and the blade misfires and hits anyone?  Was it intentionally added as a trick to get even with an enemy?
I have a different logic - I simply assume that, if an NPC has an item, it is useful for *them*, and if the NPC is not an idiot, they won't use cursed items - and if they own items with drawbacks, the benefit 'd better be worth the drawback and more.
But the item is useful for the NPC, not necessarily (and  usually not) for the PC. Most of the items they find on NPCs are sidegrades, or items that are specific for their profession, or tainted items (which are OK for the NPCs but not for the PCs). Basically, the immense majority of items that the PCs find is of no use to them.

As for power creeping, I don't really care as long as there is a rough balance between the PCs themselves. If they have powerful items, it means they have powerful enemies, and it all balances out. As a GM, I have all the tools I need to make them sweat whenever I want, so the only issue is whether the opposition they face is believable. Encounters are not meant to provide a tactical challenge, they are meant to further the plot(s), atmosphere and local tension, and move whatever story is being crafted forward. Thus, the real point, and where I really pay attention, is the non-combat capabilities of the items I drop in their path, because they are the ones that can make or break the overall "feel" of the game.

If, for instance, you GM a game where outdoors survival is a large part of the setting atmosphere, having item properties that provide the means to bypass those obstacles is basically a no-go, since it would destroy the illusion you want to craft. If the idea is to have them walk on eggshells in social intrigues and mystery solving (such as murder investigation), having on-demand past vision, divination and mind reading are a big red flag. And so on.

And if you base your campaign atmosphere around tactical challenges and combat grittiness, you ask ? Then of course item combat abilities must be balanced carefully, but balancing them with NPC combat abilities of the same calibre is an easy way out (so they get powerful enemies along with their great power)... and as I said, I don't  GM combat-focused campaigns, so I don't have that problem :p

Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2022, 05:28:34 PM »
have settled on this item...
Mage Slayer Blade (+10 magical short sword/slaying vs spell users)<< Delivers double damage and an 'A' Cold critical when it strikes a spell user in addition to any other criticals. is cold to the touch. attunement check or take an a cold critical if user not successfully attuned. Drawback= friendslayer/when you fumble in addition to fumbling you deliver an 'A' cold critical to one random ally in range. Fumbles on 1-4.

Is slaying versus mages (including friendly ones)
Fumbling with this weapon causes if to fire a cold bolt at the nearest ally causing an A crit (2x A crits if that ally is a spell user).
Attempting to use the weapon without a successful attunement roll increases the fumble range to 1-40. Plus the user takes an A cold Crit.

Offline AliasAerius

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Re: Are This many cursed items a bad idea and not fun?
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2022, 11:52:19 PM »
Magic items take a lot of time and money to create, so even a cursed item is a huge investment. One of the items you mentioned really does have a good reason to be there though. The magic amulet would be a very good way for the mage to control their decoy and so could serve double duty. It would also be useful for the mage if the party took it with them, rather than just be annoying for the party.