Topic: Throwing one foe into another

[r0bperry]

Here's a quirky question.
One of my players wants to be able to throw one opponent into another. His character is a Warrior Monk and I think he might be caught up into the whole anime / Hong Kong action aspect of martial arts.  Where you can throw opponents around like bowling pins depending on your skill level. Tried to explain that the rules are not set up for that kind of action, but then I began to think about it, and wondered what would be the skill, or way to do it.

Attack effects I guess you would call them. Effects like throwing opponents, or intentionally causing knock back. I am not sure if its already in the rules, because I have not found it yet. Are there are rules covering just this instance?

Just off the top of my head, I think they would first need to succeed with a Grapple Attack.
With a successful Grapple they would be able to manipulate their opponent.
Then either an opposed Strength or Strength vs. Agility, or a Static Action check, would result in if the opponent could be thrown.

If everything succeeds, then a skill check for throwing objects/people would need to be made with the results going against the thrown object tables/chart. Damage, if any, would result on how far the opponent was thrown and to what kind of damage they would take when they landed. What would happen if they were thrown into an object or another opponent, and what would be the resulting OB/DB applied, if any. Even though there is a few passages in the Sweeps/Throws Crit table, they are so few that it makes doing this almost impossible.

In looking at this from multiple angles, I see several potential problems and avenues.
1) First, I believe an initial attack of some kind must be made to get a hold of the target of the throw. Without successfully grappling, or grabbing your opponent the rest is moot. It would need to be more than just successfully hitting the opponent, in order to throw him. Maybe a critical result would be required to throw their opponent.
2) Now that the character has a hold of his opponent, he now can attempt to throw them.
  a) Would this be a Static Maneuver, or RR, to see if the character could accomplish the throw.
  b) A strait Strength/Agility check just to see if he is able to manipulate his opponent.
  c) Or just a throw on the Sweeps and Trow's attack table but with a Range Penalty indicating how far the opponent is thrown.
     i) So lets say to throw someone is -20 per every 5 ft they wish to throw them. Standard DB would apply, plus maybe let the target apply his ST or AG to their DB because of the kind of attack.
  d) There would definitely be a modifier for size to weight ratio differences. I probably would give it an additional -20 per size difference, but they would only be able to effect one size larger than themselves. I might allow a two size difference but the negative would be -40 to -60 and the target would get a +40 to +60, to resist the attempt.
  e) I thought about making this a Static Maneuver after the initial grapple. But with the size difference and range, that they want to throw their opponent, setting the difficulty level.

That's as far as I have gotten in my thoughts on the subject. A forced knock back is very similar to this. In both instances I would think maybe treat it like an Adrenal Move, or some sort of Athletic skill. Though I don't see how one could do it any more than a called shot in these rules. But I think if it can be done I am looking in the correct area.

Thoughts?

[Pazuzu]

The Ambush skill, when developed high enough, can be used to allow the attacker to move the crit result to the one they want. On the sweeps and throw chart, this would allow the player to throw the victim X number of feet in a chosen direction as part of the crit result.

Other than that, the mechanics for such a maneuver would be cumbersome and time consuming. The juice wouldn't be worth the squeeze.

[Hurin]

I do think though (and I have argued) that RMU should have some rules for basic maneuvers like what DnD calls the 'Bull Rush'. This is an attempt to push an opponent backwards. This sort of thing comes up quite a bit in actual play (one of the reasons why DnD institutionalized it with its own rules), especially when characters are fighting on say a rooftop or bridge. And you do fairly regularly see posts about this sort of thing on the forums.

[vector]

Here is my overly complicated and not very good attempt to create rules for "cinematic" martial arts grappling. The intention was to let my players do all the cool things they've seen done in martial arts movies. Now they can maintain holds, painfully twist limbs, fling people into traps or over cliffs and use hapless henchman as human shields. And have it all done to them, of course.

GRAPPLING
Skill Category: Martial Arts Sweeps
Required Activity Percentage: 60 – 100%
Exhaustion Point Cost: 1 / round
Description: Grappling is a form of unarmed combat where the objective is to gain control of one or more of your opponent’s limbs. Any attempt to grapple an armed opponent who is aware of the character must follow a successful Closing maneuver.
The character must declare their intention to Grapple in the Action Declaration Phase. The character may use his skill bonus in Martial Arts Sweeps, Wrestling or Locking Holds (use Locking Holds criticals) as his Grappling offensive bonus. If the character possesses none of these skills then he may use his Martial Arts Sweeps category bonus for grappling.
The attacker makes a Grappling attack like any other attack, adding his skill bonus minus the defender’s defensive bonus (excluding material bonuses) and referencing the result on the Martial Arts Sweeps attack table. If this was preceded by a Closing maneuver then all Closing modifiers apply to this attack.

The attack results have the following effects:
•   A result of zero has no effect and no chance of grappling.
•   A numbered result delivers the indicated hit points but not a successful grab.
•   A critical result indicates a chance to gain control of one or more of the opponent’s limbs. A bonus of +5 per critical degree (A = 5, B = 10, etc.) is added to the Grappling attack roll. The critical result has no other effect during grappling maneuvers.
If the grappling attack results in the possibility to control one or more of the opponent’s limbs then the defender makes an opposed roll adding their appropriate Martial Arts Sweeps skills (Wrestling, Locking Holds, and Martial Arts Styles). If a combatant does not possess any skill ranks in a Martial Arts Sweeps skill then they must use their Martial Arts Sweep category bonus.

The opposed maneuvers can have the following results:
•   Attacker < Defender = No Grapple
•   Attacker = Defender = Advantage Defender, No Grapple
•   Attacker > Defender (1 – 25) = One Limb Grasped, Attackers Choice
•   Attacker > Defender (26 – 75) = Two Limbs Grasped, Attackers Choice
•   Attacker > Defender (76 – or more) = Total Control

Once a grapple has been attained, the defender can attempt to break out of the grapple on any subsequent round. This action requires a 100% activity and automatically initiates new opposing maneuver rolls between attacker and defender. The attacker receives several benefits once he has attained a grapple. The attacker also has a number of options depending upon the level of the hold.

If the attacker controls one limb:
•   He can use 60 – 100% activity to maintain the hold.
•   He can use 10% activity to inflict his Strength bonus as hits of damage.
•   He can use 60 – 100 % activity to automatically fling his opponent up to five feet away (opponent makes a Light maneuver roll to stay on their feet) if he controls an arm, or he can attempt to trip his opponent (opponent makes a Hard maneuver roll to keep his feet) if he controls a leg. In either case, the opponent is no longer grappled after these actions.
•   He can try to fling his opponent into another target in range by making an attack on the Ram/Butt/Bash attack table. He uses his Martial Arts Sweep skill with a -50 penalty and the attack result is limited to Small Attacks. The result is applied to both his opponent and the target struck. 
•   He can initiate a new grapple attack to better his hold.
•   He can initiate a new grapple attack and accept the results on the Martial Arts Sweeping attack table. The defender is no longer grappled unless the critical result indicates otherwise.
•   Adrenal defense is limited to 50%.

If the attacker controls two limbs:
•   He can use 60 – 100% activity to maintain the hold.
•   He can use 10% activity to inflict double his Strength bonus as hit points of damage.
•   He can use 60 – 100% activity to automatically fling his opponent up to five (plus half Strength bonus) feet away (opponent makes a Medium maneuver roll to stay on their feet) if he controls both arms, or he can attempt to trip his opponent (opponent makes an Extremely Hard maneuver roll to keep his feet) if he controls both legs. In either case, the opponent is no longer grappled after these actions.
•   He can try to fling his opponent into another target in range by making an attack on the Ram/Butt/Bash attack table. He uses his Martial Arts Sweep skill with a -30 penalty and the attack result is limited to Small Attacks. The result is applied to both his opponent and the target struck. 
•   He can initiate a new grapple attack to better his hold.
•   He can initiate a new grapple attack and accept the results on the Martial Arts Sweeping attack table. The defender is no longer grappled unless the critical result indicates otherwise.
•   He cannot use Adrenal Defense.

If the attacker has achieved “total control”:
•   He can use 40% activity to maintain the hold.
•   He can use 10% activity to inflict triple his Strength bonus as hit points of damage.
•   He can use 60 – 100% activity to automatically fling his opponent up to five (plus Strength bonus) feet away (opponent makes a Very Hard maneuver roll to stay on their feet) or he can attempt to trip his opponent (opponent makes an Absurd maneuver roll to keep his feet). In either case, the opponent is no longer grappled after these actions.
•   He can use 60 – 100% activity to throw the opponent into an adjacent object (another foe, wall of spikes, edge of cliff, etc.) inflicting hits equal to triple his strength bonus, and possible other collateral damage, all while still maintaining the hold. The attacker could also throw his opponent prone to the ground, inflicting hits equal to triple his strength bonus, all while still maintaining the hold.
•   He can try to fling his opponent into another target in range by making an attack on the Ram/Butt/Bash attack table. He uses his Martial Arts Sweep skill with a -10 penalty and the attack result is limited to Small Attacks. The result is applied to both his opponent and the target struck. 
•   He can use his opponent as a human shield, gaining the attacker a cover bonus against incoming melee or missile attacks.
•   He can initiate a new grapple attack and accept the results on the Martial Arts Sweeping attack table. The defender is no longer grappled unless the critical result indicates otherwise.
•   He cannot use Adrenal Defense.

The defender suffers several restrictions while grappled:
•   He cannot use a shield and weapon use is restricted (see below), but can use an appropriate Martial Arts skill.
•   Weapons over 2 feet long are useless.
•   Weapons over 1 foot long - 30% OB (assumes the weapon arm is free).
•   Defender may use any Weapon Brawling attack with no penalty (assumes the weapon arm is free).
•   All spell casters gain an additional ESF modification of +50.

If the defender has one limb grappled:
•   He can attempt to breakout of the grapple using 100% of his activity. If the breakout roll is successful by 51 or more then the defender can elect to reverse the hold, i.e. now they control one of their opponent’s limbs. If the breakout roll is successful by 76 or more two limbs can be controlled. A breakout roll in excess of 101 or more will result in total control.
•   He suffers a – 4 Initiative penalty.
•   Can make unarmed attacks with his free limbs at a –30 penalty.
•   Adrenal Defense is limited to 50%.

If the defender has two limbs grappled:
•   He can attempt to breakout of the grapple using 100% of his activity. If the breakout roll is successful by 51 or more then the defender can elect to reverse the hold, i.e. now they control one of their opponent’s limbs. If the breakout roll is successful by 76 or more two limbs can be controlled. A breakout roll in excess of 101 or more will result in total control.
•   He suffers a – 6 Initiative penalty.
•   He can make melee or unarmed attacks with his free limbs at a – 50 penalty.
•   He cannot use Adrenal Defense.

If the defender is under “total control”:
•   He can attempt to breakout of the grapple using 100% of his activity. The maneuver roll is made at a –20 penalty. If the breakout roll is successful by 51 or more then the defender can elect to reverse the hold, i.e. now they control one of their opponent’s limbs. If the breakout roll is successful by 76 or more two limbs can be controlled. A breakout roll in excess of 101 or more will result in total control.
•   He suffers a – 8 Initiative penalty.
•   He cannot use Adrenal Defense.

[gog]

Would developing a Martial Arts Style (as per Martial Arts Companion) work for this, then lets you set the power level, have the character have a teacher (plot hooks), and means they can get better at things. Also takes it to a single attack roll when using the Style.

[tbigness]

Just make a contested maneuver for a grab and then use the Nodwich attack table.

[Spectre771]

RM2's RAM/BUTT/BASH/KNOCKDOWN Attack table could be helpful here.   Make a contested ST/AG roll to secure the grip on the opponent, then allow the throw at another N/PC.  The receiving target would then take an attack roll on the Ram/Butt/Bash table.  I've used this method a few times as not many of my players opt for the Martial Arts Sweeps/Throws skill or Wrestling skill. 

I would use ST/AG because both are needed to secure and to throw a person.  I've used agility plenty of times in Aikido to overcome an opponent's strength.  Sadly, there are some people who are just too strong and who can lift you over their head in a dead lift before you can react.      But that is another story for another time.

I also allow the "thrown PC" to make the attack roll against the "target PC."  It's more fun when the players get to attack each other. 

[Ynglaur]

The Armory has an attack table for this: the Nodwick Attack Table.