Topic: Haste/Speed and Adrenal Speed

[providence13]

Does anyone allow Haste (or even Speed) to be used with Adrenal Speed?

If you do, how has it worked out in your game?

If you don't.. why not?

There is a RM ruling that supports additive multipliers. As an alternative, does anyone use Haste and Adrenal Speed but allow 300%Act?

Any responses, judgments or hyperbole are welcome.  

[mistrornge]

A character can only get 3 actions max. I guess theoretically it would be possible though I wouldn't allow it for balance reasons until they were much higher level (and only to balance a melee with the casters).

[rdanhenry]

You could theoretically get 300% activity and do a 100% action each phase. Just hope you don't get a bleeder.

[RandalThor]

I don't see why not. Most of the ways in which you get stuff like Haste are magical or uber-tech, so "realistic" has already been thrown out the window. Also, I would assume they aren't getting access to these abilities at 1st level (although one could argue that is when they need them), and the things they are dealing with are likely to be appropriately tough, so it should be fine.

[yammahoper]

if a pc was hasted then had a speed spell cast on him, would you increase it to 300%?

i'd rule the spell cast on an adrenal hasted pc would delay until the adrenal wore off.  if a pc used adrenal and had a haste spell cast on him at the beginning of the round he activates the adrenal, id rule the spell takes affect next round, and vice versa.

[rdanhenry]

No, Haste and Speed don't stack. "Only one Haste or Speed spell may be in effect on an individual at any given time." (RMSS Spell Law, section 7.1.24, p. 232)

There is no such prohibition that I am aware of against combining magical speed with a physical burst of adrenaline.

[markc]

No, Haste and Speed don't stack. "Only one Haste or Speed spell may be in effect on an individual at any given time." (RMSS Spell Law, section 7.1.24, p. 232)

There is no such prohibition that I am aware of against combining magical speed with a physical burst of adrenaline.

  I have extended this to also include Adrenal Speed in my game but by the rules only spell effects do not stack. Why? Well to keep it simple for one. Another is that I reasoned out that they both affect the same pathway in the body so they would not stack. Otherwise you could have a 3 tiered affect in a magic-psi-game with Psi like Haste (IMHO different pathway than Magic Haste), Magic Haste and Adrenal Speed.
MDC

[rdanhenry]

What would you even do with 400%? I guess it'd be useful if you were using a Heavy Crossbow.

[markc]

What would you even do with 400%? I guess it'd be useful if you were using a Heavy Crossbow.

 I would laugh maniacally. And then do what ever I wanted with my 400%.
MDC

[jdale]

What wouldn't you do?

But seriously, probably three melee attacks + move out of melee range.

[Kristen Mork]

What wouldn't you do?

But seriously, probably three melee attacks + move out of melee range.

Difficult: you still only get three actions.  So, with 400% activity you can either a) attack, attack, move (total of 280% activity) or b) attack, attack, attack (total of 300% activity).  In either case, you can still be hit during the snap and normal phases, and perhaps even in the deliberate phase depending on initiative.  In case a), the GM might also rule that you must disengage from melee before moving.  If that's a separate action, you can only move 10' out of melee.  If it's part of a move action, the haste helps because you could disengage (25%) and move (80%).

[vroomfogle]

Doesn't RMSS state that any unused action can be spent as movement after Deliberate?   So it really gives you 4 actions, as long as the last one is movement.

[markc]

 I use my own combat systems so is non attack-spell casting a attack? Or does it count against 3 actions (I would assume it would but if I did allow it then I would allow attack, attack, attack and non-attack spell).
 400% would also help against those creatures that have multiple attacks for your 1(3) attack(s) to move out of the way.

MDC


P.S. Does this bring up the idea of why the 3 action per round limit? I can see the rule make as many attacks as you have 100% actions if you only attack.
MDC

[Kristen Mork]

Doesn't RMSS state that any unused action can be spent as movement after Deliberate?   So it really gives you 4 actions, as long as the last one is movement.

Good catch.  Yes, you could attack/attack/attack/move, with a maximum move of 80%.  Although, the "Disengage from Melee" action might preclude that allocation depending on how one interprets that action (is it part of movement, or a separate action?).

Also, IMHO +100% activity from Haste and +100% activity from Speed equals 300% activity.

[providence13]

Thanks everyone. Lot's of good info.

My players stack Haste with Adrenal Speed and I'm ok with that. Goose/Gander.
It's interesting to point out that they don't use it often. This isn't a standard combat tactic.

(When the Monk was just starting out, he failed a RR (after neg down a SCSM) and became addicted to Haste. If you could double productivity with no loss of quality, why wouldn't you do it all the time? What elso does a Monk need PP for?  He kicked the habit (...) and just used Speed, non-habit forming, for 2 lvls.)

It is awesome for crossbows, or 2 rnds spell prep AND casting in 1 rnd, or concentrating on one spell while shooting a bow and then casting another..

I do like the 300%Act max and 3 actions/rnd rules. Then you can use any remaining %Act for movement at the end.
  Although I could understand arguments that 100%Act allows 3 roll-able actions, so 300%Act (+) could yield additional roll-able actions. "Combat is a series of actions that is resolved with a single roll." You aren't really attacking more, for example, just increasing the chance that it's going to be more effective.

For now, I'll stick with 3 actions totaling 300%Act when stacking Adrenal Speed and Haste.

[rdanhenry]

Also, IMHO +100% activity from Haste and +100% activity from Speed equals 300% activity.

I think everyone agrees with that. 400% came from a hypothetic stack of +100% magical Haste +100% physical Adrenal Speed +100% some psi power that speeds you up.

[jaranka]

Personally, I don't think I'd allow more than 200% activity in a round.  With 300%, a two-weapon fighter would get 6 attacks that round.  4 is already pushing it I think.

[rdanhenry]

You can already get 6 attack rolls (in 3 two-weapon attacks) with 200%. 70% melee, 70% melee, 60% melee.

[bennis1980]

Here's a hyperbole for you:

If you get 200%, 300% or even 400%, you are able to run twice, three times or four times as fast. Would you allow a character to jump up to four time the distance in one go?

That would be impressive!

[RandalThor]

Personally, I don't think I'd allow more than 200% activity in a round.  With 300%, a two-weapon fighter would get 6 attacks that round.  4 is already pushing it I think.

Since most of what would give the character added activity is magic or otherwise super-power based, I don't think it is a big deal to allow greater than 200%. Of course, if you are going to do so, it is pretty-well assumed that the game/campaign in question is a high fantasy one and not a nitty-gritty one.

If you get 200%, 300% or even 400%, you are able to run twice, three times or four times as fast. Would you allow a character to jump up to four time the distance in one go?

Well, not quite to the same percentage, but I have always felt that the Haste spells/powers did not have all the correct effects. Like, if I am moving and reacting at twice my normal ability, why don't I have an OB and DB bonus? How about an initiative modifier? And the already mentioned greater jumping distance.

Haste/Speed should have the following effects (imo):
+100% actions
+5 Initiative (RMSS/FRP), +20 RMC/2
+20 DB
+20 OB
+50% Leaping/Jumping Distances

Oh, and in keeping with the multiple add-ons: These effects are for each +100%

But, I also think that Haste I should be a 20th level spell.

I am OK with allowing these for the Adrenal Speed ability, as well, because it has its own limitations built in: takes action in prior round to set up, only lasts for a single round, etc...