Author Topic: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster  (Read 7752 times)

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Offline arakish

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2012, 09:44:57 PM »
Quote
In the ensuing war, the humans and dwarfs wiped out the Elves


Oh, now here's a tale to hear (fills tankard and sits next to firepalce)...tell me more of the death of those evil elves and all their kin...  :D

Actually, you will have to wait until I get the world complete enough to start gaming.  Then you can either join the game or lurk and read what goes on.  It might still be some time before I am ready, I am still trying to get the Character Generation and Of the Power completed.

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Offline RandalThor

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2012, 08:08:17 AM »
This:
He infected all other mammalian animals and wiped out 75% of them within the first six months of his return.
Makes this:
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Biggest problem, as far as anyone knows, is that Demik goes pandemic and wipes out all mammalian life across the entire world.
Impossible, unless you are talking about a very (VERY!) high magic world with lots of quick transportation available. Because if they are relying upon middle-ages level of transportation for the majority of their getting around (with the odd high-level mages being able to teleport) something that can kill so many in such a short time would not spread so. It would kill too fast to get very far. (Or if it was airborne, but it would likely have been a big problem well before then as it would have traveled off the island carried by the air currents. Also, if it affected birds - chickens, you said - then it is likely that it would have gotten off that island a long time ago by migrating birds. But it is a fantasy world.  ;D )

Other than that, I am all for wiping out those damn, dirty elves! Huzzah!! (Not that there really needs to be a reason other than their haughtiness: "Fah-fah-faugh. Look at my cool pointed ears. I'm an elf and you gotta love me!")
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Offline arakish

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2012, 10:28:28 AM »
This:
He infected all other mammalian animals and wiped out 75% of them within the first six months of his return.
Makes this:
Quote
Biggest problem, as far as anyone knows, is that Demik goes pandemic and wipes out all mammalian life across the entire world.
Impossible, unless you are talking about a very (VERY!) high magic world with lots of quick transportation available.

Notice the "operative" words (highlighted).  On Onaviu, there is one huge land mass, with about four small island continents.  Three are close to the major land mass, while one is literally half the world away.  Below is a small version of the world map in an equirectangular projection.  The assumption of the Demik going pandemic is based on the that no other peoples have been encountered since the Hatharnd have been working to resurrect the humans and dwarfs.



Here is a direct link with an image showing what the Demik did.  Once it became active after an incubation period of 6 to 8 days, it would necrotize the entire body within 2 to 3 days.  If you did not resist the initial contact, you were dead within 8 to 11 days.  The Demik was so nasty that it got a +100 bonus (basically, the people got a -100 penalty).  Very, very, very nasty disease.

NOTE: The Demik link is to an old webpage I have yet to update.  Sorry for any confusion.

The Hatharnd and their minions are immune to the Demik.  But the Hatharnd discovered an herb, while it may not cure the Demik, it does keep it in remission.  The peoples just have to remember their daily dose.  Also makes for an interesting mechanism for keeping the population under control.  "Don't obey the law, you get no Pharlax.  Then the Demik will eat you alive."

rmfr
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Offline arakish

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2012, 10:39:33 PM »
Went back and reread this:

Other than that, I am all for wiping out those damn, dirty elves! Huzzah!! (Not that there really needs to be a reason other than their haughtiness: "Fah-fah-faugh. Look at my cool pointed ears. I'm an elf and you gotta love me!")

and ROTFLMAO.  In response, all I can say is, "Boo-Yah!"

Na na na na.  Na na na na.  Hey, hey, hey, goodbye!

The wicked Elves are dead!

 ;D :o 8)

rmfr
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Offline jdale

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2012, 10:52:49 PM »
Impossible, unless you are talking about a very (VERY!) high magic world with lots of quick transportation available. Because if they are relying upon middle-ages level of transportation for the majority of their getting around (with the odd high-level mages being able to teleport) something that can kill so many in such a short time would not spread so. It would kill too fast to get very far.

Not necessarily if there are carriers who do not suffer the effects. They would need to be widespread or you would get isolated areas that the disease did not reach.

Of course, once the disease is put into remission by the herb, all the treated survivors are effectively carriers. So given enough time it will get everywhere.

I can't think of any real disease that works this way -- carriers that are highly contagious for long periods of time but never get the symptoms. But it is fantasy after all.
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Offline arakish

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2012, 11:42:27 PM »
Impossible, unless you are talking about a very (VERY!) high magic world with lots of quick transportation available. Because if they are relying upon middle-ages level of transportation for the majority of their getting around (with the odd high-level mages being able to teleport) something that can kill so many in such a short time would not spread so. It would kill too fast to get very far.

Not necessarily if there are carriers who do not suffer the effects. They would need to be widespread or you would get isolated areas that the disease did not reach.

Of course, once the disease is put into remission by the herb, all the treated survivors are effectively carriers. So given enough time it will get everywhere.

I can't think of any real disease that works this way -- carriers that are highly contagious for long periods of time but never get the symptoms. But it is fantasy after all.

WOW!  Never thought of that.  Thanks Dude.  And GOOD EYE.  Yes the Demik became "endemic" with the herb.  And yes, they are all now carriers of the Demik.

Good catch.  And thanks for the corrections.

rmfr
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2012, 09:13:28 AM »
First of all: Nice map, I dig it.
Notice the "operative" words (highlighted).  On Onaviu, there is one huge land mass, with about four small island continents.  Three are close to the major land mass, while one is literally half the world away.
There still doesn't seem to be a reason for the disease to have stayed on that one island for so long. Back when it was a problem for those people, as it was spreading across the island, it would have been carried by one of the several types of birds that migrate thousands of miles. (We have them, they do it.) It would have gone to other parts of the world, but likely, once in an area, wouldn't get much further - though the birds could/would make it a world-wide problem. (BTW: Wouldn't your -100 modifier just make the RR a push? By that I mean, the elf would only have his stat bonuses as the mod for the RR. Right? Elves aren't immune to diseases, just "virtually" immune - unless you made them that way. The +100 is to reflect that high resistance, but still makes it possible for them to get sick. I can definitely see where he could become a carrier though.)

Quote
The assumption of the Demik going pandemic is based on the that no other peoples have been encountered since the Hatharnd have been working to resurrect the humans and dwarfs.
I don't think I understand this statement. Are you saying that people who first had the disease - and still do, but only in carrier form - are trying to bring the extinct species of humanity and dwarves back? Not sure what that has to do with anything about how the disease went pandemic from a single carrier.

Not necessarily if there are carriers who do not suffer the effects. They would need to be widespread or you would get isolated areas that the disease did not reach.
Except, it was so effective/powerful (-100 RR) that other than elves, the likely-hood of there being lots of carriers is very, very remote, and it was so fast acting and deadly it would burn itself out. Though, as it seems to affect just about everything it could have spread from nearly every creature to every other creature. but all of that just says to me, it is better served as being used as a "world-killer" much like a huge comet.

With a disease like the one described, this is I feel is the more likely scenario: Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years ago, all life (except for maybe plants and insects) on the planet was killed off by this super bug. Leaving behind nothing but the structures the intelligent races built, most of which have been reclaimed by the lands. Now, the bug waits in the frozen carcasses of several victims in the high mountains where the snow never melts, waiting for another chance. And perhaps in caverns deep within the earth.

It just seems to me that this disease concept has fallen into the same situation that many writers and movie-makers have fallen. By wanting it to be uber-dramatic, it was made too nasty. So nasty that it wouldn't work the way it was said to work - unless the "perfect storm" of ingredients occurred, which just starts to feel too forced. I think, that it would have worked much better if the disease had a long incubation period: The initial exposure is like having a mild flu or cold which goes away after a few days. Now is when the disease really starts to spread through the body, and the populous as this is its most contagious time. A few weeks, perhaps a month later, and the person really starts to get sick as the disease kicks into high gear. by then, the disease has out-ran itself, people have taken it all over, so that by the time it starts to kill, it is too late to warn the next nation as many of them are already infected. Remember, a diseases function, as a living organism, is to propagate itself; if it does so too quickly with the results of killing its victims, then it runs the risk of killing itself off along with them. (As has happened.)

Quote
But it is fantasy after all.
As was mentioned. Again, all of the above can be made moot by the disease being said to be magical. Magic, is well, magic and rational explanations don't apply.


« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 09:20:01 AM by RandalThor »
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Offline arakish

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2012, 10:05:02 AM »
... I think, that it would have worked much better if the disease had a long incubation period: The initial exposure is like having a mild flu or cold which goes away after a few days. Now is when the disease really starts to spread through the body, and the populous as this is its most contagious time. A few weeks, perhaps a month later, and the person really starts to get sick as the disease kicks into high gear. by then, the disease has out-ran itself, people have taken it all over, so that by the time it starts to kill, it is too late to warn the next nation as many of them are already infected. Remember, a diseases function, as a living organism, is to propagate itself; if it does so too quickly with the results of killing its victims, then it runs the risk of killing itself off along with them. (As has happened.)

Actually, I like this idea better.  Can I steal it? ;)

Longer incubation definitely gives it a much greater chance to be spread and
it is too late to warn the next nation as many of them are already infected.

Will definitely give it a rewrite.

rmfr
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2012, 10:37:49 AM »
Thou cannot steal what I freely give.

I like to think of a disease as having a finite amount of "slots" available for to be used for its two primary attributes:

Strength: How much damage to the host body does it do?

Durability: How tough it is to deal with?

Examples: The common cold has a low strength, but a high durability; it does very little damage, but is nigh-impossible to get rid of. While ones like Ebola and HIV have a high strength and low durability, just exposing them to air -or non-favorable environments - tends to kill the germs, but they do incredible damage. (Not that there aren't exceptions, this just seems to be the most common "rule" of diseases/germs.)

Other things to consider, which can be extrapolated by the attributes:

Vector: How is it transmitted? Diseases with low durability tend to need injection or ingestion or some other type of direct transfer. Conversely, those with high durability tend to be able to be transmitted through a greater variety of means, some even survive long periods exposed to air.

Incubation Period: How long it takes before symptoms begin showing up makes a huge impact on how far and wide it can be spread.

Only after you determine all of these attributes can you work to determine what it will do when it is let loose upon a populous. I am sure there are others that I am forgetting, hopefully others with greater knowledge will be able to add to this. (Or, perhaps, shoot it down entirely.  :o )
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2012, 10:28:50 PM »
Not necessarily if there are carriers who do not suffer the effects. They would need to be widespread or you would get isolated areas that the disease did not reach.

Of course, once the disease is put into remission by the herb, all the treated survivors are effectively carriers. So given enough time it will get everywhere.

I can't think of any real disease that works this way -- carriers that are highly contagious for long periods of time but never get the symptoms. But it is fantasy after all.


Isn't this how many STDs get transmitted?  One person has no visible symptoms and passess it along to another.
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Offline Sloth

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2012, 01:54:15 AM »
I can't think of any real disease that works this way -- carriers that are highly contagious for long periods of time but never get the symptoms. But it is fantasy after all.

The case of certain Mary and typhus comes to mind, but that was an exception, rather than rule.

Offline markc

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2012, 09:03:13 AM »
 You can also have a disease that mutates after a period of time to be fatal. So the initial disease just makes you sick and lowers your resistance for the mutated disease later on.


Also multiple carriers would be more effective IMHO then a single carrier.
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Offline Marc R

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2012, 10:12:15 PM »
I do think a Google of "Typhoid Mary" would be helpful here. A non symptomatic carrier for decades.
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Offline providence13

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2012, 09:16:15 AM »
I do think a Google of "Typhoid Mary" would be helpful here. A non symptomatic carrier for decades.

So Mary Mallon was an Irish immigrant. Ireland is known for elves.
Mellon is the elvish word for friend. Marry "Mallon" was a half-elf/elf-friend and probably caught her infection from dirty elves; sad tale.
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2012, 09:28:42 AM »
Ah, I see.... typhoid fever was a biological warfare agent designed by elves in hopes of wiping out humans, huh?
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Offline markc

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2012, 12:16:52 PM »
  An interesting idea might be a new type of disease. Say a supernatural disease. For example in my game everyone has power points (PP), mind points (MP) and a soul (higher intelligent creatures/spirits/elemental's/etc). So how about a magic disease that targets creatures with PP, it does not affect everyone do to the fact that in some small regions there is no magic so people cannot regain their PP. Or have a MP or soul disease for your game.


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Offline RandalThor

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2012, 12:25:02 PM »
  An interesting idea might be a new type of disease. Say a supernatural disease. For example in my game everyone has power points (PP), mind points (MP) and a soul (higher intelligent creatures/spirits/elemental's/etc). So how about a magic disease that targets creatures with PP, it does not affect everyone do to the fact that in some small regions there is no magic so people cannot regain their PP. Or have a MP or soul disease for your game.
That is definitely a possibility in a magical setting, and one of the ways one could explain the disease arakish put forth. (When something is said to be magic, it doesn't have to follow any of the regular "laws" like unmagical things do.
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Offline markc

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2012, 12:38:14 PM »
 Yes and when I wrote the above I thought about the disease only affecting magical things/people/creatures/etc but it could also be a magical disease that comes from the source of magic itself. So in essence "magic itself" is diseased (this could be a whole global epic adventure arc" and everyone would be affected over a period of time. Unless a person develops a mutation so it does not affect them. Maybe Dragon Blood or some other substance that could possibly change someones DNA.
 Note: In my world I would have it affect elemental's and other non-native races if they had magic as they entered this plane, with the exception of a few races. So players would try and find those few races for clues on why they were not affected and go from there. Also my game is a mixed game magic/psi (RMSS/SM:P) so they would have a lot of tools to work with. 

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Offline RandalThor

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2012, 12:43:39 PM »
You could even have diseases that stay true to certain types of creatures, like elementals, magical mammals, just like diseases in our world tend to stick with a type of creature (reptile, mammal, avian, etc..). So, if the enemy nation is known to use lots of conjured elementals to fight with, you could introduce an elemental-plague in order to weaken them.
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Offline dutch206

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Re: Contracting diseases in Rolemaster
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2012, 03:04:38 PM »
I've been thinking about this whole question for a couple of days now.  I have figured out how to take levels out of the process:

Open-ended d% roll + RR Mod + misc. mods.  Success= 101 +  (Like a Cascading resistance roll)

Misc. mods could include traveling through the sewers, searching garbage, a particularly nasty virus, wearing gloves and a mask, etc....

The symptoms you suffer would depend on how badly you fail the RR by.
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