Topic: Rolemaster Popularity with Military Personel

[bpowell]

When you spend months on board a ship, you ain't got much else to do except role-play, play penny poker (we weren't allowed to play for serious money), sit around and BS, etc.  Thus, the reason I think many RPGers are military or ex-military.

rmfr

Yeah I think like 85% of my Nuc School class played.  And it was when i was at Prototype I started playing RM.

[arakish]

Thus, the reason I think many RPGers are military or ex-military.

And on a further note, I think most military or ex-military play the RM system because of the "believable realism" since such persons get that "realism" drilled into them.  Or, like me, were actually involved in real combat.

rmfr

[RandalThor]

When you spend months on board a ship, you ain't got much else to do except role-play, play penny poker (we weren't allowed to play for serious money), sit around and BS, etc.  Thus, the reason I think many RPGers are military or ex-military.

Yeah, I can see that - I know I played a lot the one time I was on a ship - for a significant period of time. But, for me, it was mostly that I went in a gamer, as did most of the guys I played with. Some though, were just looking to excise the boredom of the barracks and such.

And on a further note, I think most military or ex-military play the RM system because of the "believable realism" since such persons get that "realism" drilled into them.  Or, like me, were actually involved in real combat.

Possibly, but I am sure there are plenty that have gone the other way: having seen real combat and decided they like it a bit less real....

For me (playing RM and other more "realistic" games), it is more about me being able to actually use my brain & experiences*. I have decades of RL experience, not decades of abstract, artificial, not-even-close-to-realism experience.


*Meaning, I have a good idea of what happens when a person falls 30 feet to a stone floor, and that getting cut/stabbed/bashed/burned/electrocuted/etc... hurts and should be handled that way. When (if, lets hope for never here) someone points a loaded crossbow at me, I tend to go along with them, and think of some other way out of the situation other than charging and just "taking the hit" because I have plenty of "hit points."

[arakish]

... Some though, were just looking to excise the boredom of the barracks and such.

That too.

Possibly, but I am sure there are plenty that have gone the other way: having seen real combat and decided they like it a bit less real....

How true.  Absolute concurrence.  And to be wholy honest, I still suffer PTSD nightmares from what I went through.  They don't occur very often, but they do still rear their ugly heads.  However, I still prefer RM/SM system over any other.  And I think the main reason is that the system was made with no "Absolutes" as one still finds in that crappy DnD system.

For me (playing RM and other more "realistic" games), it is more about me being able to actually use my brain & experiences*. I have decades of RL experience, not decades of abstract, artificial, not-even-close-to-realism experience.

Another absolute concurrence.  That is my way also.  I'd prefer to have a group of excellent role players instead of a group looking to blow of steam with a hank and slash.

*Meaning, I have a good idea of what happens when a person falls 30 feet to a stone floor, and that getting cut/stabbed/bashed/burned/electrocuted/etc... hurts and should be handled that way. When (if, lets hope for never here) someone points a loaded crossbow at me, I tend to go along with them, and think of some other way out of the situation other than charging and just "taking the hit" because I have plenty of "hit points."

I damn sure would not charge.  I'd just raise my hands and say, "I surrender."  And like you, look for a way out of the situation should any present itself.  I was taught in my ATC classes that should such happen, it is best to surrender, and don't try any "hero" crap.  In fact, one of my instructors said it is preferable to try and rescue me than to go through training my replacement.

rmfr

[GrumpyOldFart]

I'm pretty much where you two are, although I've never seen combat so I put it in different terms. More than any other factors, the things that drew me to RM1 in 1981 are the same things that keep me here today:

1. It's "believable", a word I use in preference to "realistic". Truly realistic is too fiddly, too much housekeeping. People who don't care for ICE products tend to use "anti-heroic", but I'm good with that one too. I will always remember the shock of 2 medium high level characters (low to mid teens) when they realized the stories they were hearing in the tavern were about them. They didn't think of themselves as heroes, or really even adventurers, they were just 2 guys trying to muddle through with their lives, just like everybody else.

2. Anyone can learn to do anything. Class/Profession only limits you by the difficulty of acquiring X skill, it really never makes it impossible.

[Gunnar Greybeard]

I have to admit, my first exposure to Rolemaster (probably 84/85 while stationed in Germany) I did find that the number of charts intimidated me just a bit. Fortunately, I had a great DM who walked me through the system as I was learning it. Once I found out how realistic the combat portion was, compared to other systems, plus how customized a PC could be generated and built, I was immediately hooked. I think any non-RM system I have DM'd since then has included Arms law/Claw Law any time it was feasible to use.

[intothatdarkness]

I always liked it for the ability to adjust the system as needed. For all the tables and such, RM is actually pretty easy to adjust to accommodate any sort of game or style of play. The only real limits are the skill (or lack thereof) of the players and the GM.

[bpowell]

What I like about the system is the extreme flexibility it has.  This means that it will bend enough to accept my quirky playing style and not break.  The realism is there.  I must admit one time to settle an argument at the table we went out in my back pasture with my 75 pound recurve bow and took shots at a target.  Man, are we total geeks or what?!?!?

[Marc R]

Total geeks would solve from data with a slide rule, that you went out in the yard and started shooting makes you something else entirely. 

[bpowell]

Total geeks would solve from data with a slide rule, that you went out in the yard and started shooting makes you something else entirely. 

Dangerous??  We did use a Few equations to ensure the shot was physically possible,  The discussion was could a human pull it off.

[mocking bird]

A friend of mine was on a sub in the 80's and they did a lot of roleplaying - and picked up some interesting 3 person card games.  Apparently there is a lot of idle time for this when you are a Russian translator beneath the polar ice cap for a few months, allegedly.  His job description changed quite dramitically during Gulf I and a lot of the gaming stopped.

I know several ex-military/police who game as well.  They also tend to be history buffs which seems to be an added attraction.

[Wōdwulf Seaxaning]

One of my old gaming buds was a gamer prior to enlisting in the Marines . He & some of his unit gamed..maney D&D 3.5. Never could get him to try RM. One of my current gaming buds (we play RM2) was a gamer before serving in the Airforce... Had a neighbor who served who loved Twilight 2000 & gamed when on down time.

[arakish]

And my story.

I started playing back in 1973 when TSR introduced the DnD Basic Set.  The next year they introduced the three books; Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master Guide, and Monster Manual (IIRC).  However, even at the age 12 and 13, I realized DnD was not realistic enough.  Then in 1980(?), I saw the first edition of Arms Law and immediately knew this was the realism DnD missed.  I was also in my first year in the Navy, having joined in 1979.  Even in boot camp, there were several of us who got together and RPGed during our free time (which weren't much).

It was not until 1983, when on leave, that I found the original edition of Character Law.  I immediately fell in love with the system and ain't looked back since.  Even before the first RoCos, we were adding so much optional material, we could have written two of them.  However, my wife would never send in any of the material.  Or, she would forget.  7734, she had twin daughters to take of, a home to take of, and all the other little things that go along with it, and she had to do it by herself since I was mostly off doing Navy things.

Basically, I had 6 years RPG experience before I joined the Navy.  Now it is an unbelievable 38 years.  And I still find it hard to believe it was that damned long ago.

rmfr

[RandalThor]

Even in boot camp, there were several of us who got together and RPGed during our free time (which weren't much).

That, right there, exemplifies the difference between Navy boot camp and Marine Corps boot camp - we had NO time to play, and we couldn't have any of the gaming materials in the first place. The only things we were allowed were our government issued items.

I was a gamer before going in, and continued to game while in, playing a variety of games. For my core group Star Wars D6 and Top Secret SI were two of the bigger ones, but we did play D&D, as well - AD&D as it was the late 80's. I had already played RM before going in, but was unable to get many to try it in the Corps. (I guess they wanted escapism more than anything else.) I returned to playing some RM after getting out and hooking up with some of my old gaming buddies from HS.

[markc]

arakish;
 The 3 D&D books you talk about were published in 1978.
MDC

[mistrornge]

They were good times in the Infantry.  Sitting around and maintaining vehicles got boring quickly.
Not a lot going on for us for 87-90 other than Panama.  We actually played down there even though we had no books or dice. 
I joined a d&d group and managed to change to Rolemaster players before leaving. 

[markc]

3 Blackmore D&D books in 1975'.
MDC

[arakish]

markc,
You may be right.  It was so dang long ago, it's hard to remember with the Alzheimer's setting in.

Checked Wikipedia, which is probably more correct than I.  It probably was on my 13th birthday in 1974 I bought the first "blue box" Basic DnD set.  I do remember it was a blue box.  Wikipedia states that the books came out in 1977.  That seems about right since I do KNOW I had the PHB and DMG before joining the Navy.

Thanks for the correction.

... we couldn't have any of the gaming materials in the first place. The only things we were allowed were our government issued items.

We RPGed without the materials.  More or less freeform but still based on DnD.  And as said, we didn't have much free time.  Maybe one hour a night, if we were lucky.  Most often, we would sit around RPG while shining boots/shoes, ironing clothes, cleaning the head, etc., etc.

rmfr

[yammahoper]

i ran a daily ad&d campaign for three years, 2nd edition, from memory (though I eventually wrote down a bunch of the rules/tables/etc, mostly for the players).  even 3.0/3.5 is easily ran from memory, especially if you through out the DC's assigned by "the rules" and just run with it.  it is one of the systems strongest points.

RM core is also easy to memorize, with the exception of skills perhaps.  Mnvs are easy to resolve with target numbers.  It is the combat tables and crit tables that limit such play.

[bpowell]

I was stationed on Submarines for most of my career.  We miniaturized the rule and Rm only used two dice.  A few years back i saw the Core Rules of "The System That Shall Not Be Named" in a single book.  I said "Man, we came up with that idea years ago!!"  But we did not copy-left it so we snoozed and lost.

We figured out the calculations for the AL tables and limited the weapons (underway) to 4.  This gave us the ability to game and still sleep with out having books take over our racks.