Topic: How to lift stun-curse?

[yammahoper]

If a GM really hates stun, they could modify the rule so attacks can be made at -50, and at -75 for stun no parry.  i think it would also be fair to extend the fumble ranges with weapons to be achievable via a modified role when stun.  The BAR table already takes care of the increased risk with its design as is.  This makes stun less devestating, but not much. 

Most magic items, once attuned to do not require an attunement check.  When stunned, they should.  In fact, if stun simply accrues a penalty while stunned, then ALL mnvs should suffer that penalty, but be denied out right.

If lots of stun is accrued, perhaps the penalty can increase, by say -5 for each additional round of stun, maybe -10.  Perhaps -5 for each additional round of stun and -10 for each additional round of Stun No Parry.

Nice thing about RM, it is VERY flexible.  Over the years I have become less and less a fan of all the stun removal skills.  I like the penalty, as stun has a greater impact on low level PC's yet greatly increases the chance of fumble for all.

[DangerMan]

Sigh.. I say there's a IRL curse moving from player to player at our table, and you guys tell us to parry (sic!) or make house rules. No help for the young and feeble there..

I never really like the concept of being stunned for 2 minutes and unable to attack.  It just doesn't seem to translate to the real-world very well.  What would that look like?  Likewise, the Stunned No Parry results.  I like the idea of hitting a target so hard the target drops their defenses temporarily, but minutes on end seems far-fetched.  Either they're dead, or truly incapacitated to the point where a 2-minute breather isn't going to help, or they're temporarily out of it.

Thoughts?

Well put!

[Zedul]

Is that RAW or a house rule?  I kind of like it...
I never really like the concept of being stunned for 2 minutes and unable to attack.  It just doesn't seem to translate to the real-world very well.  What would that look like?  Likewise, the Stunned No Parry results.  I like the idea of hitting a target so hard the target drops their defenses temporarily, but minutes on end seems far-fetched.

Thoughts?

Obviously you don't watch enough full contact sports in the real world.   Any NFL or NHL game can provide you with plenty of opportunities because they are engaging in a type of physical combat and are actually wearing body armor so you get to see "stunned" or "stunned unable to parry" at least a dozen or more times a game.  In addition you get to see what 30+ rounds of stun does at least three or four times a game when said player is being carried off the field/ice.   

It's pretty obvious how the human body reactions to trauma.

[yammahoper]

Is that RAW or a house rule?  I kind of like it...
I never really like the concept of being stunned for 2 minutes and unable to attack.  It just doesn't seem to translate to the real-world very well.  What would that look like?  Likewise, the Stunned No Parry results.  I like the idea of hitting a target so hard the target drops their defenses temporarily, but minutes on end seems far-fetched.

Thoughts?

Obviously you don't watch enough full contact sports in the real world.   Any NFL or NHL game can provide you with plenty of opportunities because they are engaging in a type of physical combat and are actually wearing body armor so you get to see "stunned" or "stunned unable to parry" at least a dozen or more times a game.  In addition you get to see what 30+ rounds of stun does at least three or four times a game when said player is being carried off the field/ice.   

It's pretty obvious how the human body reactions to trauma.

I agree.  All the stun rules are really very freindly compared to being knocked silly in real life.  But then so is all RM combat, it is just much less freindly than other romantic systems.  Blood loss rules in RM are particularly friendly (and non existent in romantic games).

I think RM has the right level of danger in its combat system.  BTW, what is IRL?  I recall loosely?

[DangerMan]

But, you could have twelve rounds of stun, but NOT being knocked out and still move around, however no attack. That doesnt make sense. Either you go down, or you get a grip before two minutes has passed. Thus, the going unconsciuos-rule mentioned above is probably to lenient.

IRL I use as "In Real Life"

[Ynglaur]

Good points.  What's missing, though, with both the stun rules and the blood loss rules are injuries which kill you over several hours.  Bleeding can be a very fast way to die...or it can take several hours.  Likewise certain types of organ damage.  Rather than "dies in 12 rounds" I'd almost rather see "dies in 12 hours".  12 rounds later, the fight might still be going on.  Slow-killing wounds present more opportunities to give challenges for the PCs.  Drag the wounded with you?  Try to escape?  Leave them behind?

[Usdrothek]

But, you could have twelve rounds of stun, but NOT being knocked out and still move around, however no attack. That doesnt make sense. Either you go down, or you get a grip before two minutes has passed. Thus, the going unconsciuos-rule mentioned above is probably to lenient.

I disagree on this.

Ever played a contact sport and receive a good shot? I do and I have. I've never been KO'd, but I after getting the wind really knocked out of me, I've been down or 'unable to play' for a minute or two. Sometimes you can walk it off, but you've 'lost the will to fight' for a bit.

[Marc R]

I've done both, been knocked down for minutes with no lasting injury. . .and blown a hole through the back of my thigh that took 12 muscle stitches, which I tried to get up and run from, and just didn't get why my leg wouldn't take the weight, then the pain kicked in at about 30 seconds after the fall off the wall onto the sharp stick.

[GrumpyOldFart]

I've done neither, but I've seen an SCA fighter take a hard shot to the solar plexus from a spear with a fiberglass shaft. He never lost consciousness, but he was every bit of 45 minutes "learning how to breathe again".

[providence13]

Got Ridge hand to the side of the head; temple. Was totally blind but I could see stars. Fell down into a sitting position until I came to..
At least a full minute. My hearing came back before vision. I'd call that stunned, unable to parry/down.

Those stitches sound rough!

If you want to really be a mean GM, start tracking all of the stun rounds and work some concussion stat penalty into the mix.
RM is real enough for me. I don't want to add any more to it.

I like the heroic aspect of being down to just a few hits and being stunned, but you might have a chance.

If the party is having a hard time with stun rounds, then stay out of combat.
I'm not trying to be crass. RM combat is unforgiving.. Pick up some skills, or remember that MM performed while stunned are at -50 but also modified by 3x SD bonus (in RMFRP).

[Marc R]

Muscle Stitches. . .they prefer not to use anesthetic, the pain cramping pulls the muscle fibers into high relief so they can line them up and make sure they stitch the muscle up straight and even so you don't end up like Dr House. . .my first and only experience with maternity stirrups, I hope never to repeat it.

RM is rough, I think some people like it, or hate it, for that very reason.

[Zedul]

I've done both, been knocked down for minutes with no lasting injury. . .and blown a hole through the back of my thigh that took 12 muscle stitches, which I tried to get up and run from, and just didn't get why my leg wouldn't take the weight, then the pain kicked in at about 30 seconds after the fall off the wall onto the sharp stick.

Just a question... first time I read this I thought it was a jogging injury, now I read "blown a hole" - how did you manage that?

[Kristen Mork]

A combatant will lose consciousness if his total number of accumulated "stuns" exceeds:
 10 + (2 x Co stat bonus) rnds.

This is RAW for RMFRP, pg 209 and RMSS pg 89.
Stun rounds are stun, stun no parry AND down or out rounds..

YGMV

In Arms Law & Claw Law (second printing) 1990, you lose consciousness if the rounds of stun exceed: beta = 5 + [hits / 10].  The same definition appeared in the RMSS Arms Law.  Perhaps superseded by RMSR pg. 89, but I still maintain that beta was a long-standing rule.

[MariusH]

The curse should be lifted in the following way:

Whenever a player deciedes to rid himself of his dice due to poor results (they are obviously cursed!), do NOT chop them up in little pieces and dissolve them in acid, like you usually do. Instead, present them to the GM and insist he use these dice whenever he's rolling a crit against you. If he continues to roll high crits against you, stunning you all the time, the curse is obviously personal, and I suggest a contribution to your local cleric/monk/shaman.

[Marc R]

We were playing tag in the foundations of a burned out barn next to a pond. I tripped and tumbled off the foundation, falling 6' to the grass and landing flat on my back, breath knocked out, my friend, the "it" couldn't stop laughing, so he didn't jump down and get me, I got up and tried to run, kept falling down, he stopped laughing and said I was bleeding. . .turned out, a beaver had made off with a honeysuckle bush, leaving behind a nice sharp chisel shaped 1" diameter 3" long stump. . .which had stabbed me right in the middle of the back of my left thigh. T'was lucky it didn't hit a big vessel, nor did I land on it with my spine, neck or head. . . .one of my worst injuries, and I didn't even notice, no pain at all for 30 sec or so.

And yes, you might want to consider the possibility that it's a dice curse, I've had a few sets of totally non random dice over the years. (we used hammer in the driveway as our fix for those).

[providence13]

And yes, you might want to consider the possibility that it's a dice curse, I've had a few sets of totally non random dice over the years. (we used hammer in the driveway as our fix for those).

Wear eye protection or you may have another story explaining why people call you "Patch".
Ricochet! 

I'd use fire to destroy dice... It's the only way to be sure.

[markc]

 One thing I like about the Stuns worth 10 hits rule vs your hits left is that it takes into account your hit total at any point. So if you have 50 hits and take 4 stun then next round take 2 stun for as total of 5 rounds of stun you go unconscious. There is that extra level of stress about what is my stuns vs hits in any combat.
MDC

[Kristen Mork]

One thing I like about the Stuns worth 10 hits rule vs your hits left is that it takes into account your hit total at any point. So if you have 50 hits and take 4 stun then next round take 2 stun for as total of 5 rounds of stun you go unconscious. There is that extra level of stress about what is my stuns vs hits in any combat.
MDC

I always interpreted the old beta rule as pertaining to hits left (like you).  So, if you've been reduced to 17 hits, 7 rounds of stun will knock you out.  (I still leave the +5 modifier in so that mages aren't knocked out with 2 rounds of stun.)

[providence13]

Well, it's a question of stat dependent KO or skill Rank, remaining hits dependent KO.
Either way you want to go.
As in most RM issues, there are different ways to do it.

[markc]

One thing I like about the Stuns worth 10 hits rule vs your hits left is that it takes into account your hit total at any point. So if you have 50 hits and take 4 stun then next round take 2 stun for as total of 5 rounds of stun you go unconscious. There is that extra level of stress about what is my stuns vs hits in any combat.
MDC

I always interpreted the old beta rule as pertaining to hits left (like you).  So, if you've been reduced to 17 hits, 7 rounds of stun will knock you out.  (I still leave the +5 modifier in so that mages aren't knocked out with 2 rounds of stun.)

 Yes quite a bit of difference in 7 rounds in your formula and 2 rounds in my formula. I guess it might be just how you like to play the game and average starting hits for the system you are using. I tend to use a different combat system and the length of a stun is based on the players stat bonuses so there are two factors at play here.
MDC