Topic: Misfeels, Feels, Presence, Unfeel, Unpresence... confused yet?

[GrumpyOldFart]

There are even entire Lists themselves which boost the potency of spells to X factor without having to expend the actual amount of power points suggested.  There are booster lists all over Spell Law itself which are actually much more efficient than just doing a raw PP dump.   The Elemental Companion has a whole bevy of Enhancement Lists that can pump up Radius, Duration, Range, Critical, and Damage by use of an additional spell.

...which (to me at least) implies that in order to increase effectiveness of most spells you should have to learn other lists, rather than just dumping more power into the original spell.

Or at the very least learn ranks in Spell Mastery for it.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

For example you could expend 50 power points in Fire Law to get a x5 Fireball...

In order to do so, you're also required to be at least level 50 AND to know the Fire Law list at at least level 50. As such, I don't really mind a fireball cast by a 50th level to be more powerful than when cast by a 10th level...

[Zedul]

...which (to me at least) implies that in order to increase effectiveness of most spells you should have to learn other lists, rather than just dumping more power into the original spell.

Or at the very least learn ranks in Spell Mastery for it.

If the enhancement lists required a 10th level spell to make a x2 Fireball then it would absolutely imply such, but they do not.  The enhancement lists nearly halve the amount of PP it takes to boost the spell and that swing is a major difference, especially in large scale sustained battles.  Any battle mage is going to need to have enhancement lists to make boosted spells a viable alternative, otherwise they would just run dry... unless of course your campaign does not cap Power Points.  (I personally use a cap system, where races have base PP similar to base hits)

And yes I totally agree with you that Spell Mastery should be used as a stabilizer for pumping up those PP in the absence of enhancement lists.   When my players increase the PP of a spell without Spell Mastery I add a natural fumble factor of +1% for every x the spell is increased.  Nothing worse than a mage with 90 hits who is wearing a cloth robe having to deal with his x4 Fireball fumble!!!!  Ooooops...

[Zedul]

For example you could expend 50 power points in Fire Law to get a x5 Fireball...

In order to do so, you're also required to be at least level 50 AND to know the Fire Law list at at least level 50. As such, I don't really mind a fireball cast by a 50th level to be more powerful than when cast by a 10th level...

  Ding ding!  Correct!  A 10th level mage would be overcasting 10 levels just to make a x2 Fireball and we all know how bad that ESF roll would go!

However, as I was noting above.  A 10th level mage with an enhancement list can make a x2 Fireball by pre-casting a level 5 spell thus there is hardly any risk at all.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Ding ding!  Correct!  A 10th level mage would be overcasting 10 levels just to make a x2 Fireball and we all know how bad that ESF roll would go!

About 75 if he's "just" not high level enough. Reaches 95 if he doesn't know the list at such a level (which is probable).

However, as I was noting above.  A 10th level mage with an enhancement list can make a x2 Fireball by pre-casting a level 5 spell thus there is hardly any risk at all.

You still have to buy the enhancement list; that's one list less for you (because you could buy another list instead). What's the interest of doing so if it doesn't allow you to do anything outside of what you can do without? Why not complain about how the Spell Enhancement list allows a caster to multiply by 2 (3, 4) all of his spell durations with "hardly any risk at all", by the same reasoning?

[Marc R]

I believe a lot of the extra PP spells, and the spell mastery SCSM stuff, relates to the fact that many spells are not inherently scalable, and yet many are.

All those X/Lv effects cause the spells to inherently scale up with caster level, at no PP cost. . .

And the bolt spells scale up with directed spell skill, so a high level bolt is likely to be more dangerous than a low level one, due to the higher OB the caster will have, but no effect with balls.

[Ynglaur]

The various spell enhancement lists effectively allow you to buy overcasting abilities at the expense of Development Points: a worthy cost-benefit analysis, in my opinion.  PPs regenerate; DPs do not.

[Zedul]

You still have to buy the enhancement list; that's one list less for you (because you could buy another list instead). What's the interest of doing so if it doesn't allow you to do anything outside of what you can do without? Why not complain about how the Spell Enhancement list allows a caster to multiply by 2 (3, 4) all of his spell durations with "hardly any risk at all", by the same reasoning?

What complaint and why complain?  I don't understand.