Topic: OB / parry split?

[DangerMan]

As a player, how do you determin OB / parry split? What factors do you keep in mind? Any rules of thumb?

[Marc R]

I meter risk.

Generally, against foes of equal ability, a 50/50 split throws all the results onto the dice.

Pulling it off average to 75/25 or 25/75 you bias the probabilities. . . .These are usually my declarations, call them standard offensive or defensive. The reasons why vary greatly, I'll try to explain in a bit.

Past that the all out 0/100 or 100/0 of full offense or full defense are only worth it under the right circumstances.

It's easier to explain the full declarations, and the standards follow the same logics, but less so, and are more complex and are more a feel for the situation than anything.

Full defense is something I do when my attack matters far less than staying alive. . .if an opponent is attacking you, and your friends are attacking it, it's best to full defend, survive the round, and let them take the enemy down. . ..same if you're just waiting for reinforcements to arrive, like if you're a guard and screaming for help from other guards while keeping an intruder from killing you.

Full offense is something I do when I am convinced I won't be attacked, like from ambush, or when a foe is blatantly after someone else and ignoring me. . .or when time is a premium, like when you're the intruder and the guard is screaming for help and you need to deal with him and get going.

The more common normal variations tend to be similar, but less urgent. . .but you need to be cautious. . .playing for too much time, fighting defensively, is generally prudent, but your enemy has a 5% of rolling open ended high on you, so if you allow them to survive long enough to make 5 more attacks, that's 25% chance they'll open end you, or that you'll open end down. . .so you want to take them down, but survive, but the more attack rolls you allow, the more chances you'll get killed. . .

The more I read the above, the more I wonder how much that helps, since so many factors combine to make the choice, it's hard to express it.

[markc]

  It depends on the foe, the PC's situation (wounds/actions) and group situation. I use a House Rule that says every attack over 1 for a round the next attack gets +20 OB. Note I do not use rounds per say but it is easier to explain this way. So if a PC knows the attacker is focusing on them they might do a full parry to give the other PC's a better chance to hit. Or they might do a zero OB attack to give the next attack +20 OB. IMHO this rule represents the ability of opponents to gang up on one person and by using Combat Styles you can add some abilities to offset this also, sort of like the affects an extra opponent with your shield in the MAC. The last two are fairly easy to understand but I can say that some group situations require a faster resolution to combat than others.


Does that help?
MDC

[Vector Z]

Depends on the GM. If he's the type that kills PCs regularly, use a lot of your OB for defense. If he's the type that doesn't want to spend hours helping you make a new character, then every attack is a haymaker!

[DangerMan]

I meter risk.

Generally, against foes of equal ability, a 50/50 split throws all the results onto the dice.

Pulling it off average to 75/25 or 25/75 you bias the probabilities. . . .These are usually my declarations, call them standard offensive or defensive. The reasons why vary greatly, I'll try to explain in a bit.

Past that the all out 0/100 or 100/0 of full offense or full defense are only worth it under the right circumstances.

It's easier to explain the full declarations, and the standards follow the same logics, but less so, and are more complex and are more a feel for the situation than anything.

Full defense is something I do when my attack matters far less than staying alive. . .if an opponent is attacking you, and your friends are attacking it, it's best to full defend, survive the round, and let them take the enemy down. . ..same if you're just waiting for reinforcements to arrive, like if you're a guard and screaming for help from other guards while keeping an intruder from killing you.

Full offense is something I do when I am convinced I won't be attacked, like from ambush, or when a foe is blatantly after someone else and ignoring me. . .or when time is a premium, like when you're the intruder and the guard is screaming for help and you need to deal with him and get going.

The more common normal variations tend to be similar, but less urgent. . .but you need to be cautious. . .playing for too much time, fighting defensively, is generally prudent, but your enemy has a 5% of rolling open ended high on you, so if you allow them to survive long enough to make 5 more attacks, that's 25% chance they'll open end you, or that you'll open end down. . .so you want to take them down, but survive, but the more attack rolls you allow, the more chances you'll get killed. . .

The more I read the above, the more I wonder how much that helps, since so many factors combine to make the choice, it's hard to express it.

Thanks. Helped a lot, actually!

Interesting that you use percentages, not absolute figures. The one time I did play a character with a melee weapon, I think I thought more like "what DB would make me feel comfortable in this fight" and allocated the necessary amout from my OB. 

  It depends on the foe, the PC's situation (wounds/actions) and group situation. I use a House Rule that says every attack over 1 for a round the next attack gets +20 OB. Note I do not use rounds per say but it is easier to explain this way. So if a PC knows the attacker is focusing on them they might do a full parry to give the other PC's a better chance to hit. Or they might do a zero OB attack to give the next attack +20 OB. IMHO this rule represents the ability of opponents to gang up on one person and by using Combat Styles you can add some abilities to offset this also, sort of like the affects an extra opponent with your shield in the MAC. The last two are fairly easy to understand but I can say that some group situations require a faster resolution to combat than others.


Does that help?
MDC

Hmm.. We obviously dont use that house rule, and the rest I'm not shure I understand.

Depends on the GM. If he's the type that kills PCs regularly, use a lot of your OB for defense. If he's the type that doesn't want to spend hours helping you make a new character, then every attack is a haymaker!

HaHa.. Good point Im afraid he's in the first camp.. 

[Ynglaur]

Depends on the GM. If he's the type that kills PCs regularly, use a lot of your OB for defense. If he's the type that doesn't want to spend hours helping you make a new character, then every attack is a haymaker!

LOL

[pastaav]

I think the correct answer is...parry enough to force enemy to need a open ended roll to really hit you. If this means you also need an open ended roll then you are evenly matched and you need to plan strategically to get advantage.

[Marc R]

In making that "percentage" check, I often combine all factors first, then go back to do the split.

Like if I have 30 DB from various sources, and a 70 OB with my weapon, then 50/50 will literally be 50 OB and 50 DB. . . i.e. I'll do a 20/50 split on parry and let my innate DB bring up the difference.

[Ecthelion]

I think the correct answer is...parry enough to force enemy to need a open ended roll to really hit you. If this means you also need an open ended roll then you are evenly matched and you need to plan strategically to get advantage.

Exactly

[Marc R]

Which gets into 2nd order tactics, like "I'll get the croc's attention, then you kill it!"

[Zat]

As a GM, I have noticed that my players go for the "If he's stunned/down/unconsious/dead, he aint gonna hit you on his initiative". This leads to getting int he first swing with the highest OB you can muster. I.e., parrying is for other people, not for my players 

[Vector Z]

As a GM, I have noticed that my players go for the "If he's stunned/down/unconsious/dead, he aint gonna hit you on his initiative". This leads to getting int he first swing with the highest OB you can muster. I.e., parrying is for other people, not for my players 

I hear ya... I had a couple guys playing once that I really think never parried during the course of a year-long campaign. One used a bow all the time, so that made sense, and the other figured the huge shield he carried was good enough (which it was!).

[thirqual]

One of my players (the first to decide to play a fighter) decided to do that too. Two-weapons fighting, broadsword + shortsword, full OB, no parry ever. He got an arm loped off, was twice put into a day-long coma, and drained a lot of party ressources (especially time and favors) to have him healed repeatedly.

The second fighter in the group plays with a long bow, javelins, a range of polearms and one-handers (+shields), choosing which to use depending on research of what he would be likely to meet, and in what type of environment ("so we need a wyvern gonads to prepare the potion for my buddy's spleen, can I go with the magis to the library to check if I should stick with the mattock or take a vouge ? ye know, I heard (flying monsters lore check) they add wickedly thick scales.").

The first fighter is slowly realizing that the second one is more effective, and is modifying his behavior, but I am not sure he would do so on his own.

[Zat]

As a GM, I have noticed that my players go for the "If he's stunned/down/unconsious/dead, he aint gonna hit you on his initiative". This leads to getting int he first swing with the highest OB you can muster. I.e., parrying is for other people, not for my players 

Perhaps I should also clarify; My group favours 'Passive DB', forgoing the perceived need to parry. Adrenal defense, shields, high Quickness, armour bonuses to DB etc.
It's not unusual for some of my 'Tank' players to have a passive DB in excess of +100 (at reasonable levels), in fact right now our campaign is running at around level 14 and the resident tank is the Barbarian (level 16):

Armoured Adrenal Defense: +90
Quickness: +15
Sheild: +25 + 30 Magical (Yes, Magical in spite of the fact it's a very low magic item campaign)
Armour bonus: +10 ( high quality)

Grand Total = (a whopping) 170 DB

Parry? No she doesn't parry 

[Marc R]

I wouldn't parry much with that much passive DB either. . .or, it'd go into the calculations, as I said above.

i.e. 170 DB  + 230 OB = 400.

So I might go 50/50 and parry for 30. .

Then again, when the game is set to that level, I expect many of the enemy are hard to hit too, requiring a lot of OB.

[DangerMan]

Is "armoured adrenal defense" according to the rules, or have you made some house rule on this? I thoght that skill was for unarmed, none-armoured combat?

[Zat]

It's a RM2 Skill (rule), I forget which companion....maybe 4.
And there's Weapon Bugie skill too, for those who want to use larger weapons whilst keeping AD bonuses.

[MariusH]

I think the correct answer is...parry enough to force enemy to need a open ended roll to really hit you. If this means you also need an open ended roll then you are evenly matched and you need to plan strategically to get advantage.

Exactly

I agree with that, too. However, the way we play, we never announce the opponents OB or DB, so you  really don't know what you're up against. Also, opponents tend to parry to a varying degree (NEVER have them use the same parry all the time - make them truly unpredictable), which makes this pretty hard to accomplish. Unless you have some sort of "intuition" spell or similar, I guess.

Apart from that, I agree that pressed on time means little parry while opponents pressed for time means high parry. Also, few against many means little parry (you gotta kill off some of them pretty fast), whereas many against few (or often, against one) means high parry. Often max parry, to try to keep it occupied fighting a high DB person while others try to take it out from range. In the last case, be prepared for it to try to simply bypass your "tank", though...

[Ecthelion]

However, the way we play, we never announce the opponents OB or DB, so you  really don't know what you're up against.

We also don't announce the opponents OB or DB. So you always have to make a guess about the opponents capabilities. If in doubt just assume that the opponent has the same OB and DB as the PC and act accordingly.

[Kristen Mork]

I announce the opponent's DB so that the players can a) compute their total attack roll and b) look up the results themselves.  Otherwise, it's too much chart-flipping for me.