Topic: Ley Lines and Nodes

[Vector Z]

I think it was the Arcane Companion where I first saw Ley Lines and Nodes mentioned in RM. I've always had some ideas in the back on my mind regarding these phenomena, about how to incorporate them as major story elements, but I have yet to detail anything fully.

Any of you guys ever developed this concept? I'd love to know what ideas you've come up with

[Cory Magel]

I have worked up some ideas for a possible implementation in a game world I've been tinkering with over the years.  Long story short there are "hot spots" and "cold spots" for the various magics.

Ley Lines are the Essence version.  The closer you get to them the more power points you have available.  They ring the planet randomly and some are known to migrate (some slowly, some quicker).  The lower the altitude the more the power spreads, so relatively normal altitudes are pretty even in the distribution.  A powerful mage that lives directly on a fairly fixed ley line and high up on a very tall mountain (closer to the line) would have a lot of power.

I won't bother going into the other types of magic since you seem to be asking about essence.  Although, Arcane is defined as a combination of them in some books.

[Zat]

Yes, I am currently using them in a campaign right now.

Although...

My campaign has an 'Arthurian' feel to it and as such places an emphasis on lakes being a source of power. With a little tweaking I have re-designed lakes as the 'Nodes' and rivers as the 'Lay Lines'. There are consequences with this method and perhaps the most game changing is the fact that rivers and lakes are fairly obvious features in any landscape, making it plain to anyone and everyone with a pair of eyes and half a brain where sources of power exist. I have also added local gods at each Node (Lake) aka Ladies of the Lake.

Without going into too much detail, these being are completely neutral in their outlook and their otherworldly demeanour often dissapoints the visiting adventurer. Also to keep in line with the feel of the campaign, I changed the various 'Node Guardians' from Elementals to Spirits. This resulted in a pleasent change to the combat orientated guardian and gave me the opportunity to use various emotions tied within the spirits to initiate spirit (will versus will) combat.

I created an additional spell list that follows the same feel of the various Node lists and takes a lot of influence from them, in some cases directly:
http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2011/feb/lakeways.html

[Fornitus]

 We have been using nodes and lay lines since the 80's.
They were in RoCo 1 . But we had a version of it before that. I think it came from the idea of places of power, then that these places had a similarity or a connection or something. So with Power Perception and being close enough you could follow a lay line until you found a new nexus. (hopefully uninhabited)

Only after RoCo 1 did we consider actually traveling through the lay lines at all.

[Vector Z]

Ley Lines are the Essence version... I won't bother going into the other types of magic since you seem to be asking about essence.  Although, Arcane is defined as a combination of them in some books.

Is this how you defined Ley Lines in your world, or how the rules described them? As I recall, it was Primal Essence, which is all three power types combined, as mentioned in the Arcane Companion (though I could be mistaken). And actually, I would love to hear how you addressed the Mentalism and Channeling counterparts to Essence-only Ley Lines

My campaign has an 'Arthurian' feel to it and as such places an emphasis on lakes being a source of power. With a little tweaking I have re-designed lakes as the 'Nodes' and rivers as the 'Lay Lines'... I have also added local gods at each Node (Lake) aka Ladies of the Lake.

This is a very interesting approach. I've often made the comparison of Ley Lines/Nodes to rivers/lakes, but never thought to combine the two. I used water as a model to determine how power would flow in lines across the world and collect in some places, but the best I could come up with was an incomplete concept where it flows from the north pole to the south, and then re-emanates from the north (kind of like magnetic lines of flux). But I still didn't know what sort of obstacles would redirect these lines, disrupting it's natural symmetry and ultimately creating nodes :/

I like the local gods concept as well. Reminds me of the Japanese traditional belief in local deities. Each would have their own lake, mountain, forest, etc.

So with Power Perception and being close enough you could follow a lay line until you found a new nexus. (hopefully uninhabited)

Only after RoCo 1 did we consider actually traveling through the lay lines at all.

Travelling through a lay line? And what would you do with an uninhabited nexus if you found one?

Thanks for the replies guys!

[Cory Magel]

Is this how you defined Ley Lines in your world, or how the rules described them? As I recall, it was Primal Essence, which is all three power types combined, as mentioned in the Arcane Companion (though I could be mistaken). And actually, I would love to hear how you addressed the Mentalism and Channeling counterparts to Essence-only Ley Lines

Yeah, I pretty much put my own spin on it.

Channeling has actual holy and unholy locations that work in the same manner.  They are not lines, they are specific places important to a religion for whatever given reason you want to attribute to them.  By being near one important to your religion you are in effect 'closer to your god' and able to draw more power.  This explains things like why they always want to build their main cathedral on top of a location that something spectacular happened or where someone very important to the religion is buried, etc.  Of course the opposite is possible too... go into a location such as this that is "holy" to an enemy religion and you may find you are lacking in power.  There are also object (relics, artifacts, etc) that can accomplish the same thing.

Mentalism is simply focusing the power of your own mind and I play with it in a couple ways.  Certain places or even objects will have leftover psychic power imprint which can be tapped into by the Mentalism user.  They do need to be careful that the individual who left the imprint is not still somehow present (such as in a ghost type form) as they could become effectively possessed by the individual.  The bigger picture part of Mentalism is that, in a way, I sort of define mentalism as a one follower (the mentalism user itself) god.  This explanation becomes important because, while I've never bothered explaining where the "original" gods came from, I explain (if the characters are privy to it) "new" gods as individuals who have grown so powerful in Mentalism magic and have gained enough 'followers' that they are able to start drawing on the sentient power of other beings.  Once they've discovered how to draw on the power of other living things and gain some sort of 'following' they have effectively become a demi-god even if they do not realize it (in which case they often suddenly find themselves drawing much more attention than they may want).  If they survive long enough and become powerful enough they eventually become a true god.  Although to do this they must learn how to channel power both from and to followers.  They must also become immortal in the sense that they cannot die due to aging.  This explains why there are certain gods that have 'always been' and ones that come and go. A limited number of very powerful Mentalism users will achieve demi-god status, but few will ever learn or achieve the next level due to two biggest hurdles of Channeling skill and Immortality.

[Fornitus]

 Earthblood ways in RoCo 1 allows a kinda teleport from one nexus to the next nexus. But a lot safer than teleport.

 We made a lay line 'absurd' to try to get power out of directly. ( Like trying to get only a sip of water from the middle of the Mississippi.)
However a node or nexus is a spill over point like a lake and is very easy to get a sip.

 If your caster found a cave network that amplified their power from just being there, wouldnt you move in and use it as a base?
 There are spells for node control and manipulation as well as defensive magic specific to nodes.

 Check the Arcaine Comp and Spell Users manual.

[Fornitus]

 Oh, and the adventure of trying to supplant an evil cult or bad guy from a defensible node where the opponents are powered up in their prep work. The plans and attacks alone could be almost an entire campaign on their own.

We also let the power of a node be flavored in a direction of magic if massive spells and rituals of a specific kind were cast there long enough.

[markc]

 IMHO other ideas can be derived from Wold of Darkness books on Mage, Werewolves and maybe the Changeling books also. 
 You can also do some research on the web about Lay Lines, Mana, etc.


MDC

[Vector Z]

Channeling has actual holy and unholy locations that work in the same manner.  They are not lines, they are specific places important to a religion for whatever given reason you want to attribute to them.

Ok this actually makes a lot of sense. Nice idea

Mentalism is simply focusing the power of your own mind and I play with it in a couple ways.  Certain places or even objects will have leftover psychic power imprint which can be tapped into by the Mentalism user... "new" gods as individuals who have grown so powerful in Mentalism magic and have gained enough 'followers' that they are able to start drawing on the sentient power of other beings.

The psychic imprint concept is a little harder to follow, but interesting. I'd like to see this in actual gameplay. Seems like a great tool for role-playing. Also, the idea of a Mentalism user ultimately becoming a Channeling source (eg, new god) is an interesting transformation, but does make sense.

Earthblood ways in RoCo 1 allows a kinda teleport from one nexus to the next nexus. But a lot safer than teleport.

Ah ok, I think I've heard this concept before. Rifts, maybe? Yeah, that's useful.

If your caster found a cave network that amplified their power from just being there, wouldnt you move in and use it as a base?

If he was an NPC he might. PCs got places to go!

IMHO other ideas can be derived from Wold of Darkness books on Mage, Werewolves and maybe the Changeling books also. 
 You can also do some research on the web about Lay Lines, Mana, etc.


MDC

I wasn't aware WoD has this sort of thing at all. All I played from WW was Vampire. Not a whisper of a ley line. I'll check it out though, thanks

[Balhirath]

Try take a look at the Palladium Roleplaying games. Rifts (Sci fi), Beyond the Supernatural and Palladium Roleplaying Game all have a lot of Laylines and really use those as part of the game.
I use some of it in my world too.

[Cory Magel]

Mentalism is simply focusing the power of your own mind and I play with it in a couple ways.  Certain places or even objects will have leftover psychic power imprint which can be tapped into by the Mentalism user... "new" gods as individuals who have grown so powerful in Mentalism magic and have gained enough 'followers' that they are able to start drawing on the sentient power of other beings.

The psychic imprint concept is a little harder to follow, but interesting. I'd like to see this in actual gameplay. Seems like a great tool for role-playing. Also, the idea of a Mentalism user ultimately becoming a Channeling source (eg, new god) is an interesting transformation, but does make sense.[/quote]

Let me give an example.  A lot of people believe that ghosts exist because something specific is holding them to a place or even an object.  An alleyway may be haunted because someone was brutally murdered there (and is seeking revenge somehow) and a house may be haunted because someone spent the happiest times of their life there (and therefore wants to remain there) or maybe a locket a woman was wearing, which has been saved by her husband/lover/whatever has become 'haunted' in a way.  Nothing of specific religious significance happened in any of these situations (so they are not channeling hot spots), but there obviously is something of the deceased leftover there. This has the potential to be a mentalism hot spot.  You can further play with the idea in other ways... such as in the alleyway it might not be such a good idea to tap into the mental power emanating from there because of the nature of the leftover imprint (i.e. violent).  Even in the case of a happy imprint it could be slightly dangerous to pull too much power.  Basically the more power you try to pull from the hotspot the better the odds of a mental possession.  In the case of the alleyway the possessed character might go on a violet rampage.  In the case of the happy place the possessed character might simple start wandering around in confusion looking for it's (the ghosts) family.

I kinda describe Mentalism as a very limited form of channeling.  You are pulling the power from yourself instead of others and have learned how to amplify that power to the point that it is on par with Essence or Channeling.  Therefore one of the ways to become a demi-god or full on deity is to learn how to pull that same energy from other living objects and, as a result of having learned to (subconsciously) amplify that energy, become much much more powerful.  Channeling users can become demi or full on gods, but only at the generosity of their respective deities.  Very powerful mentalism users can do it on their own given the right circumstances.

[markc]

Vector Z;
 In New WoD Vampire, they are called Dragon's Nests IIRC. They are explained in the Way of the Dragon book. In old WoD V they were not used at all IIRC.
MDC

[Vector Z]

Thanks for the details Cory, interesting relationship you have drawn between Mentalism and Channeling. Plus it seems like your world has some great opportunities for testing the PCs' sanity

Try take a look at the Palladium Roleplaying games. Rifts (Sci fi), Beyond the Supernatural and Palladium Roleplaying Game all have a lot of Laylines and really use those as part of the game.
I use some of it in my world too.

Actually Rifts was the first place I had ever heard of ley lines, and my first character there was a Ley Line Walker. These things have ever since held my fascination, to varying degrees.

Vector Z;
 In New WoD Vampire, they are called Dragon's Nests IIRC. They are explained in the Way of the Dragon book. In old WoD V they were not used at all IIRC.
MDC

Ah ok... see, I played during the mid-90's, so I had no exposure to that kind of thing. But Magic afaik works quite differently in WoD from RM. I'm interested in seeing the ways GMs have used ley lines and nexes/nodes to affect the game mechanics of spellcasting, and other magic related stuff.

[markc]

They also have used Lay Lines in Shadowrun but I do not remember them explaining them a lot.
MDC

[Old Man]

I thought about having Ley Lines connect all or adjacent Earthnodes on my world but never got around to it.

However, I did have a storyline where a particular religion was "tagging" earthnodes with objects to allow them to create networks of nodes. Then when the time came their gods would flood the node networks with energies to allow them to "change" the land therein to be aligned with those gods. (Sort of like changing an axiom in Torg for those who remember that.) Fortunately players intervened and the plan was never carried out.

Ciao.
Old Man

[GrumpyOldFart]

I have a pretty complete node/ley line map of Colorado and Wyoming (the area I'm currently using as a game map)... it was a lot more work than I expected it to be.

[markc]

  IMHO the real world (RW) map would take longer than a fantasy map. In the RW you have to do some background checking or have some very good books to help you out.
MDC

[GrumpyOldFart]

Yes, but you also have endless thousands of hooks handed to you as well. Some of them are just out of the blue, too. You start looking up places of interest on google maps or something and find all kinds of stuff you had no idea existed.

The Sinks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinks_Canyon_State_Park
Split Mountain.
http://www.schweich.com/imagehtml/TS1938-R1-11.html
Fort Vasquez.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Vasquez

Other places just cry out to be nodes.

Medicine Wheel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine_wheel
Grand Prismatic Spring.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Prismatic_Spring
Devil's Tower.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devils_Tower_National_Monument

Another nice thing with RW maps is having helpers. There's someone I've never met in person, and probably never will, but I can get his opinion on precisely what spot the center of the node should be in the Garden of the Gods, since he lives close by and all.