Topic: Main gauche

[DangerMan]

Im not sure if I have got this one right - the main gauche.

According to arms law it is a small weapon, especially suited for defensive manuevers. Also, in a SW module a footnote says: main gauche can also be used to parry (my emphasis).

As for attacks, the main gauche is not very impressing.

My question is: Does the main gauche allow for any defensive manuevers or parrying, other than, say, an ordinary short sword would? Should I treat an NPC fighting with TWC and a main gauche any different than a NPC fighting with some other weapon?

I thought any melee weapon could be used to parry?

[rdanhenry]

Use without TWC for the significantly-higher-than-most-weapons shield bonus.

[DangerMan]

Aha.. I see. Thanks.

Spoiler alert, Hubbaman. Back off!

(click to show/hide)

So the NPCs in question are Neng. I guess they have the main gauche to up their DB while using their special attack?

[Marc R]

The MG and the Sai have higher than 5 "Shield" bonuses. . .

When you go full parry with most weapons, you get the weapon's shield bonus of 5, with the MG I believe it's 10, which is not a terrible lot of difference at 10th level, but can be a big difference at 2nd level. . .

If you don't attack with your 2nd weapon, you can just get the "passive" shield bonus. . . .so if you're fighting sword/dagger, and make no declarations to attack with the dagger, you can just declare the 5DB of the dagger on one opponent like a shield. . .with the MG, that's 10 DB you can declare with the off hand. . . .it's a weapon that works kind of like a half small shield, except it's useless vs missile attacks.

Hope that helps.

[DangerMan]

It did help! Thanks.

I found it in SR and its 15. Almost as good as a normal shield.

Going one handed and having an ordinary shield would yield higher OB and DB, but I guess this allows for more flexibility and you could really defend yourself when the going gets tough. Cool!

[Marc R]

Easier to hide a MG under your coat than a shield, even a target.

[markc]

Do you apply they off hand penalty to use a weapon as a shield?
MDC

[Ecthelion]

Do you apply they off hand penalty to use a weapon as a shield?

Just as with a normal shield, which is also used in the off-hand. So the answer is no, at least for me. The shield DB of a shield or weapon is AFAIK always added without further penalties, like for off-hand usage.

[Marc R]

I agree with Ecth on that one also.

[zyax1]

Is the (magic/non-magic) bonus of a main gauche added to DB if not used as a weapon?

[Ecthelion]

That is debatable since it is AFAIK not clarified in the rules. The following approaches come to my mind:
a) Bonuses for weapons get only applied to the OB
b) When buying a weapon the character may decide whether the bonus should get applied to the OB or DB.
b2) As b, but if paying the double price then the bonus gets applied to both OB and DB.
c) Bonuses for weapons get applied to OB or DB.
If using any of these options I would suggest to use the same ruling for shields as for weapons like the Main Gauche, because, if a character wants to use Shield Bash, similar questions might arise.

Using a more lenient option, as c) above, makes weapon like a Sai or Main Gauche a bit more powerful. We have been using this option and IMHO it is not unbalancing.

[GrumpyOldFart]

Is the (magic/non-magic) bonus of a main gauche added to DB if not used as a weapon?

Depends on what you as a GM consider that bonus to represent.

A weapon is, say, "+20". In the combat mechanics, what that means is very straightforward, but in terms of simulation and roleplay, what does that mean?

Is the +20 for superior materials, that tends to cleave through armor like cheese? Well then no, it probably doesn't add to parries, because the property giving the bonus doesn't affect how nimble it is. You might get an increased chance for your attacker's weapon to break if your parry is successful, though.

Is it for superior workmanship? Is the weapon so ergonomically perfect that it's "distilled joy in the hand", it moves like you were born with it? Then yeah, its advantages probably apply to active defense as well.

Same thing for magic bonuses, you as GM have to decide why the bonus is there, what it represents, if you want your answer to be consistent with both the game mechanics and the story logic inherent in your setting and scenario. Is an item of "+20 defense" something that warns you, or moves you out of the way, or interposes a force field, or does telekinesis on incoming objects, or what? Does the +20 apply only against solids? How about acid spit? How about aerosols, or smoke, which is usually particulate solids? If you had been downwind when Mt. St. Helens erupted, how much of that +20 would have applied against the ashfall?

 

[GrumpyOldFart]

Will a fly bounce off of your +20 defense, like they do with windows?

 

[Marc R]

This is the mirror reverse question of:

"If I have a shield +10, which offers +10 DB when used as a shield, if I use it for a bash attack, is it a +10 weapon?"

[Kristen Mork]

To all of the above: At the very least, the bonus shouldn't apply more than once.  So, a shield or weapon should not get its +20 to both OB and DB.  I am stingier, and every bonus is tied to a skill (or derived stat) of some sort.  So, most weapons provide an OB bonus (freeing up more skill for parrying) and most shields provide a DB bonus.

[Marc R]

if you have a skill of 50, and a weapon +10, can you full parry 60? (Most GMs allow that, which makes it kind of usable either way)

[Kristen Mork]

Personally, I do not allow a full parry at 60.  I allow full parry of 50, and an attack at +10.

[Marc R]

I have at times agreed, like I wouldn't necessarily allow an OB bonus spell to be used for parry either, it's not 100% clear in the RAW, unless there's a rule I missed somewhere.

[Draeck]

We had  non-magical bonuses (superior construction, materials, etc.) on weapons that could only be used for attacks. Magical bonuses could be used in parry, although we had some of those bonuses designated by the GM as not  being usable in parries.  Our GM's could always have an exception based on the background of an item.