Author Topic: Maybe I was rash...  (Read 3029 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tolen

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 187
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Maybe I was rash...
« on: January 20, 2011, 12:04:16 AM »
I have long been telling my friends (and anyone else I could corner) that of all of the versions of RM that ICE has put out, RMSS/FRP were my favorite.  Up until today, I refused to participate in any real discussion about RM2/C. 

A couple of years ago, as a birthday present, a friend bought me the RMC pdf's.  He knew I liked RM, and thought it would be a good gift, after all, it was the latest version of the game, and neither of us were too fond of HARP.  I thanked him, of course, but only kind of flipped through it, reluctant to give up my RMSS games.

He has since moved away, and I've invested a lot of time in tweaking RMSS to my liking.  But in light of recent conversations, I decided to step back, and take a good hard look at the way I play, and see if I was too harsh on RMC, dismissing it without any real chance for it to make an impression on me.

Now keeping in mind that I have yet to read all of the RMC material I have, here is my list of things to dislike between the two versions:

In RMSS, I dislike how long it takes to build a character.  I love the detail I get from it, but seesaw on whether or not to allow talents and flaws (it's cool if I'm a player, not so cool as a GM).  RMC is much faster.

In RMSS I dislike the initiative system.  I haven't yet digested the RMC version, but maybe it's a better fit.

In RMSS I like the stat generation roll method, but always end up trying to get re-rolls and more points so I can have a decent set of scores in addition to meeting the prime requisites.  It got so bad that I stole the RMC version of the rules and make my players use that system.

I also dislike the RMSS experience system.  It's just too many things to keep track of.

That's a lot of dislikes for a system that claims to be my favorite.

As I mentioned above, I already use the RMC stat generation system.

I prefer being able to buy 3 ranks in some skills.  In RMC, it's usually 2, max.  (Per level, that is.)  But then again, there are skills that aren't limited at all, and they seem to be generally the same kinds of skills that get 3 ranks in RMSS.  So maybe that's a wash.

I dislike the spell gain roll in RMC.  But then, skimming over Spell Law for RMC, I see that there are a few RMSS-like options to try. 

I like categories, but agree that RMSS has too many for practical uses.  I'm not convinced yet that the RMC method is better, but I bet it is much faster.

In the end, the bottom line for me has two parts:

1) I need to give it a try, play a few games, make a few characters, and give it a chance to grow on me.  I'll be better able to make decisions once I've gotten some experience under my belt.

2) As it stands now, should a major revision occur, and the new version resemble RMC more than RMSS, I will not automatically throw it on the useless pile.  I think now, I might just be open to giving it a whirl (up to now, I was secretly thinking that if it did go RM2 style, I wouldn't pick any of the new books up).

Having newer books to show everyone will make it easier for me to sell my group on the idea.  Taking less than an hour to build a character will certainly make a big difference in that regard as well.  The only thing that would make this better is if I had hard copies of the books (have you seen the prices for used copies of RMC? Insane!).

I do have a question for those in the know, though:  How similar is RMC to RM2?  By which I mean, how much of the older RoCo's would be compatible, and how much work would it take?
I'm in Southern Illinois.
No, further than that...
Try South of Mt. Vernon, where Southern Illinois really begins.

Offline Marc R

  • Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,392
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • "Don't throw stones, offer alternatives."
    • Looking for Online Roleplay? Try RealRoleplaying
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2011, 12:09:02 AM »
Essentially all of the RM2 materials will be compatible, the RMSS stuff with a little work, but not a lot.

All the RM2 options will either slot into RMC, or override something. I'd be wary of them, and try to assess how they affect play (or ask here) before putting them into use, so you at least know what to expect.
The Artist Formerly Known As LordMiller

Looking for online Role Play? Try WWW.RealRoleplaying.Com

Offline Tolen

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 187
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2011, 12:21:56 AM »
Well, I do have a lot of reading to do before I just start throwing things in willy-nilly.  I mainly asked out of curiosity on that point.

But thank you for such a quick response.  I thought I was the only looney up this late (either that, or you are west of me...)
I'm in Southern Illinois.
No, further than that...
Try South of Mt. Vernon, where Southern Illinois really begins.

Offline Cormac Doyle

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,594
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • RMC Team
    • The Aecyr Grene Campaign Setting
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2011, 03:03:28 AM »
LM/Celedor/Mar R is based in the big apple ...

Offline Marc R

  • Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,392
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • "Don't throw stones, offer alternatives."
    • Looking for Online Roleplay? Try RealRoleplaying
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2011, 06:45:49 AM »
I only changed my name once. . .in years. . .Celedor is on another board. . .

And yes, I was up late. . .And Cormac's in Ireland, so I think it was 9am when he posted?
The Artist Formerly Known As LordMiller

Looking for online Role Play? Try WWW.RealRoleplaying.Com

Offline Cormac Doyle

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,594
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • RMC Team
    • The Aecyr Grene Campaign Setting
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2011, 08:38:19 AM »
about that :)

Offline RandalThor

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,116
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Scratch that. Power attracts the corruptible.

Rules should not replace the brain and thinking.

Offline Tolen

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 187
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2011, 01:34:05 PM »
Heh...I've searched other places, and in other places, they are far, far more expensive.  But...I'm bookmarking that page, and adding them to my wish list.  Thanks!
I'm in Southern Illinois.
No, further than that...
Try South of Mt. Vernon, where Southern Illinois really begins.

Offline Tolen

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 187
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2011, 02:13:04 PM »
So what was in Spell Law 2?
I'm in Southern Illinois.
No, further than that...
Try South of Mt. Vernon, where Southern Illinois really begins.

Offline Marc R

  • Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,392
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • "Don't throw stones, offer alternatives."
    • Looking for Online Roleplay? Try RealRoleplaying
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2011, 11:55:24 AM »
Collected Spells and spell rules from the EAs and the re-released RoCo1.
The Artist Formerly Known As LordMiller

Looking for online Role Play? Try WWW.RealRoleplaying.Com

Offline Tolen

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 187
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2011, 01:08:59 PM »
Ah, so I probably have all of that info, just not under one cover.  Thanks again.
I'm in Southern Illinois.
No, further than that...
Try South of Mt. Vernon, where Southern Illinois really begins.

Offline Marc R

  • Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,392
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • "Don't throw stones, offer alternatives."
    • Looking for Online Roleplay? Try RealRoleplaying
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2011, 06:19:29 AM »
no problemo.
The Artist Formerly Known As LordMiller

Looking for online Role Play? Try WWW.RealRoleplaying.Com

Offline Witchking20k

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,312
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2011, 08:17:46 AM »
I'm not overly familliar with RMC; but I do know that RMX used some optional rules from RM2 & RMSS to kinda create a middle ground.  Spells are purcahsed as skill ranks (but with no level limit).  Characters have a static hits/rank based on race.  The stat formula in the Base RMX is a single stat; but is expanded to 3 in one of the EAs.  I think the spell lists are rebalanced as well.
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Offline Marc R

  • Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,392
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • "Don't throw stones, offer alternatives."
    • Looking for Online Roleplay? Try RealRoleplaying
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2011, 08:54:34 AM »
We did a lot of work on RMC to incorporate concepts useful from RMSS that didn't break the system. . .and a few more in the process of RMX.

RMX is still pretty recognizably a cut down small core version of RM2/C though, rather than a hybridization, for a lot of reasons.
The Artist Formerly Known As LordMiller

Looking for online Role Play? Try WWW.RealRoleplaying.Com

Offline Tolen

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 187
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2011, 09:37:15 AM »
Well, reading through the books, I'll tell you that the reasons I prefer RMSS over RM2 are:

1: Hit Points Based on Body Development.  I just don't like rolling dice for hit points.
2: Skill Categories.  But I agree that right now, RMSS is overkill in that department.
3: Spell Gain Rolls.  There is an option in the RMC book for returning to RMSS style spell acquisition, so that's no big deal.

Points 1 and 2 I could deal with, and I'd argue strongly with my GM to let me use the option for #3.

Either way, I can drag myself out from under this rock and actually try something a little different.  It might not be as bad as I thought it would be.  Now if only I could convince others...
I'm in Southern Illinois.
No, further than that...
Try South of Mt. Vernon, where Southern Illinois really begins.

Offline smug

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,291
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2011, 11:10:26 AM »
We did a lot of work on RMC to incorporate concepts useful from RMSS that didn't break the system. . .and a few more in the process of RMX.

RMX is still pretty recognizably a cut down small core version of RM2/C though, rather than a hybridization, for a lot of reasons.

I am really pretty excited about the prospect of being able to buy the Additions, hopefully somewhat soon. Also my players being able to get hold of legit RMX and RMC .pdfs.

Offline RandalThor

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,116
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2011, 06:43:43 PM »

1: Hit Points Based on Body Development.  I just don't like rolling dice for hit points.
I agree, which is why I just add Body Development - or just add specified amount depending upon the profession of the character (and their Con stat, of course).


2: Skill Categories.  But I agree that right now, RMSS is overkill in that department.
I am over the massive amount of skills in RMSS/FRP. So I just use a modifier system which works like so: You have skill in broadsword, but not the simitar - which is currently in your hand - so you will get to use your broadsword skill with a minus. (I would go with a mod of around -20 or -30.)


3: Spell Gain Rolls.  There is an option in the RMC book for returning to RMSS style spell acquisition, so that's no big deal.
Yeah, no rolls, just spend DPs to get like a skill. (If you have access to the proper materials, of course.)


Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Scratch that. Power attracts the corruptible.

Rules should not replace the brain and thinking.

Offline Witchking20k

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,312
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2011, 12:54:58 PM »
I can;t recall exactly what they are, but I believe the action round is different in all 3 versions of RM (ie. RMC/RMSS/RMX)
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Offline Marc R

  • Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,392
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • "Don't throw stones, offer alternatives."
    • Looking for Online Roleplay? Try RealRoleplaying
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2011, 05:44:39 PM »
The RMX version is a simplified version of the RMC round, but mostly in the level of details, exceptions and examples, to conserve space, than any actual mechanical variation.
The Artist Formerly Known As LordMiller

Looking for online Role Play? Try WWW.RealRoleplaying.Com

Offline runequester

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 171
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Maybe I was rash...
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2011, 12:16:49 AM »
These days I lean more towards 2nd ed/Classic, but the things I prefer from Standard are:

The generation of potentials (2nd edition a lot of stats will start with no potential left)
More broadly skilled characters.
No dice for hit points.
More power points.

Most of those things can be incorporated easily or have options already of course.