Topic: Fate Points

[Druss_the_Legend]

Not a new topic here but...

  In my campaign I use a limited number of fate points as a buffer to protect my player's characters.
  Each player starts with one or perhaps two Fate Points.
  These can be used to reroll one dice roll that effects the character.
  These are not to everyones tastes ad they can lessen the sense of danger a player has while adventuring.
  I have had a request by my players to award one Fate Point to one character at the end of each session.
  Interested in what other GMs use to mitigate poor rolls by their players and how frequently they use these buffs to dice rolls.
  The request from my players seems reasonable, I just want to preserve the feeling of danger in my campaign without making the game 'easy' mode.
  An important consideration here is how often, if at all these Fate Points are replenished. My initial though as at each level up however the leveling up is a long way away in rolemaster.

[Cory Magel]

I only allow Fate Points to be used to re-roll a roll that would result in sure death.  So, obviously death crits is, by far, the most common use.  There are certain situations where I might allow them for something like missing a jump where the fall would be instant death, or maybe a lethal poison resistance roll, or things along those lines.  I do not allow them to do things like re-roll or add to an attack.  They exist to mitigate random deaths.  They are to save you, not make you more powerful.

As to how to 'replenish' them? Firstly I'm a fan of both sides playing by the same rules... so my important bad guys get them too. This saves an important NPC from getting one shot upon first meeting and ruining a bunch of plot I have lined up. However I do this not just because 'that's fair', but rather because when you force someone to use a Fate Point, you get that Fate Point. So players are often happy about the fact that their 100 E crit didn't result in a certain foes death, but rather provided them with a Fate Point.

It can also be a bit humorous when something like a wuss goblin takes a Fate Point from a player. Not only do the PC's try to get that Fate Point back (which would pretty much be sheer luck) but it's also funny to imagine some 1st level peon running around the world with a Fate Point.

When done I'll use one of two different starting methods. One was each player got 5 points and that's it. The other was a party pool of 3 per party member. Just depends on how your party feels about each.

Using the only replenishing method of having to take them from foes has never resulted in someone running out. One unlucky player got close, but never did. Two thoughts on that are... they will eventually run out, because it partially depends on you providing foes with Fate Points that can be taken and the PC's will fight plenty of foes with none. However, as the party gets higher level they should have more methods of saving themselves or each other.

[Spectre771]

At PC creation, I roll D4.  1,2,3 = 1 Fate Point. 4 = 2 fate Points.  Any player can use a FP at any time for any roll.  Often used to save another PC from death, once to re-roll a spectacular fumble that would have prevented the PC from attempting the same skill for a long, long time.  (The roll was worse than -176.)

At the end of a campaign, I award 1 FP to a random player, but that's the max.  1 FP per session per player is far too many FP in the world.  If there are going to be that many FP given out, as the GM, I would just fudge every death crit so it doesn't kill a PC and eliminate the need for FP.

RM is gritty, challenging, deadly.  The crits are the exciting element I love about combat.  Too many FP loses the sense of danger, players tend to care less about the actions of their PCs, parrying no longer figures into tactics and combat and the crits no longer have any "teeth" to them.

 "Why parry?  If I die, I have a FP."

I want the players to care about their PCs.  I want them to have invested some of themselves into the PC, but rolling up a new PC is fun too. Then again, I love playing Diablo 3 and 4 on hardcore mode.

* - Of course, this is all just my opinion and how we run our sessions.  The players like it so we stick with it.

[Cory Magel]

"Why parry?  If I die, I have a FP."

That's exactly how you quickly run out of Fate Points.

[pastaav]

The quickest way to run out of Fate Point is characters picking too hard fights. The Fate Point can help you with unlucky dice, but won't save you if you stay fighting too long in dangerous circumstances, but they might allow you to disengage from hopeless fights if you take hint and leave early enough.

From another perspective keeping the Fate Points rare is IMHO essential. Awarding lots of extra Fate Point creates the risk that some player can stack so many that they can only die from concussion hits...but their combat ability will be so crippled by penalties that you get into Monty Python land when nobody can land hits anymore.

As for the idea of renew Fate Points at level up, but not allow the exchange of talent points. I could imagine this kind of setup working if you are running a high combat game...but there is some risk for the classic one-encounter-too-many conflict between GM and players. Players might not have any real reason to be be angry if you overwhelm them with enemies, but expectations of always having Fate Points can change perspectives.

[Spectre771]

"Why parry?  If I die, I have a FP."

That's exactly how you quickly run out of Fate Points.

We've been through 6-7 sessions and only went through 2 FP.  One was an extremely lucky crit by an NPC 99E Slash and one was a 96E Punture crit and both were on the same PC who happened to be parrying.  Death crits by NPC's don't happen that often.  The biggest problem for the players who don't parry tends to be wound penalties/stun and HP loss.  The other players are a little more veteran to the gaming in general so they rush in to engage the for or to pull the injured player out of harm.

I do have one player who uses his FP for "non-life threatening things" but that suits me fine!

[GrumpyOldFart]

I allow 2 FP at character creation.
You can use a FP to re-roll any roll you want, it doesn't even have to affect you. You can use it to save a party member.
Each character can only use a max of 1FP per game session.
You can gain a FP by doing something "heroic" or game changing and getting away with it. If you come up with the idea on how to beat the dragon, you get a fate point. If the party just grinds their way through the dragon, or lucks their way into a victory, nobody get a FP.
NOTE: You cannot gain a FP by spending a FP, even if the result is something heroic.

The idea is for it to be easy to spend FPs, but very hard to gain new ones, so if you're smart you hoard them.

Stupidity WILL be painful. I'll see to it.

[Druss_the_Legend]

Appreciate the input!
I am rolling with 1 Fate Point every 3rd game session, assigned at random. I am also allowing major NPC enemies to have 1 or 2 fate Points.

[Cory Magel]

The quickest way to run out of Fate Point is characters picking too hard fights. The Fate Point can help you with unlucky dice, but won't save you if you stay fighting too long in dangerous circumstances, but they might allow you to disengage from hopeless fights if you take hint and leave early enough.

Where I only allow Fate Points to be used to save you from a 'one shot' death crit, or the like, that doesn't factor quite as much for how I implement them. While a much stronger foe will tend to have higher end result totals and better crits as a result more often, you're still going to lose that fight even if your foe keeps rolling low crits and you never spend a single Fate Point. In the end even just concussion hit loss is going to take you out. That was a bad choice by the player, not a random roll.

The reason I implemented Fate Points was primarily to mitigate random (bad) luck deaths. While I like the additional risk in RM compared to D&D it's just not 'fun' when a completely random/meaningless roll results in a quick death. We can come up with all kinds of varied examples like a child on the street throwing a rock at you, open ending the roll then getting a 100 E crit. There was no meaning to that death and it only detracts from the game-play. Sure, you could 'fudge' that roll/death, but part of the point of Fate Points is your players understanding you're not going to. Picking a fight with the wrong foe and not retreating is still going to get you killed even if you had unlimited Fate Points.

[Spectre771]

NOTE: You cannot gain a FP by spending a FP, even if the result is something heroic.

Good point.  That makes excellent sense.

Stupidity WILL be painful. I'll see to it.

  I love it!

Appreciate the input!
I am rolling with 1 Fate Point every 3rd game session, assigned at random. I am also allowing major NPC enemies to have 1 or 2 fate Points.

This is a great idea.  I may consider this.  It will keep the campaign going with the same PCs and keep a good continuity without having to introduce new PCs or the need to invent creative story lines as to why John Doe is now adventuring with the party out in the middle of the desert on today of all days just when the party needs another sword and board PC.

FP for NPCs.... oooooh that's mean but could be fun.  Why are the PCs the only ones on the planet blessed by Fate?  I may use this too.  Do you inform the party that the NPC is using a FP or that the NPC even has FPs?

...
We can come up with all kinds of varied examples like a child on the street throwing a rock at you, open ending the roll then getting a 100 E crit.

I blame the parents.

[GrumpyOldFart]

To me, the most fundamentally important point about FPs is that it should be much easier to spend them than to get new ones. That way players don't spend them unless they have no other choice.

[Spectre771]

This came me today while I as washing dishes:  Why not leave it up to the Dice gods?

GM rolls D8 or D10.  Players roll the same die.  Whoever matches the GM's roll gets a FP.

Alternatively:  GM rolls a die that is 1 or 2 greater than the number of players.  The players roll the next die size down.  There exists a possibility that no FP get awards that game.   1-3 Players, GM rolls D4 and players roll D3.  I have 4 players normally, players roll D4, I would roll D5.

[GrumpyOldFart]

This came me today while I as washing dishes:  Why not leave it up to the Dice gods?

Because a lucky player ends up with a buttload of Fate Points and spends them like they're going out of style.

[Spectre771]

This came me today while I as washing dishes:  Why not leave it up to the Dice gods?

Because a lucky player ends up with a buttload of Fate Points and spends them like they're going out of style.

Then the GM rolls d1000 and players roll d100

[jdale]

Because it's the people who the dice hate who need Fate points the most.

[Spectre771]

Because it's the people who the dice hate who need Fate points the most.

  So very true!   

I let any player use a FP at any time.  A few have used theirs to save a party member.

[GrumpyOldFart]

As I said, make them easy to spend and hard to get more.

That way what they get spent on tends to police itself.

[Ecthelion]

Since it was released we're using the Fate Point rules from RMSS Channeling Companion. I'd suggest taking a look into that book and just use the Fate Point in it. YMMV

[Druss_the_Legend]

This is a great idea.  I may consider this.  It will keep the campaign going with the same PCs and keep a good continuity without having to introduce new PCs or the need to invent creative story lines as to why John Doe is now adventuring with the party out in the middle of the desert on today of all days just when the party needs another sword and board PC.

FP for NPCs.... oooooh that's mean but could be fun.  Why are the PCs the only ones on the planet blessed by Fate?  I may use this too.  Do you inform the party that the NPC is using a FP or that the NPC even has FPs?



id let my players know the enemy they r up against has FP and the number of fate points. Lets them be strategic about how to coordinate and encourages them to work together to defeat tough enemies and no this doesnt happen automatically because some players just charge in and swing. part of my job as GM is to give them tough choices... any deplete their resources so that those choices become even harder as they move through the adventure. Player: Should i use my fate point now or save it for whats coming? GM: make your choice.

[Druss_the_Legend]

This is a great idea.  I may consider this.  It will keep the campaign going with the same PCs and keep a good continuity without having to introduce new PCs or the need to invent creative story lines as to why John Doe is now adventuring with the party out in the middle of the desert on today of all days just when the party needs another sword and board PC.

FP for NPCs.... oooooh that's mean but could be fun.  Why are the PCs the only ones on the planet blessed by Fate?  I may use this too.  Do you inform the party that the NPC is using a FP or that the NPC even has FPs?



id let my players know the enemy they r up against has FP and the number of fate points. Lets them be strategic about how to coordinate and encourages them to work together to defeat tough enemies and no this doesnt happen automatically because some players just charge in and swing. part of my job as GM is to give them tough choices... any deplete their resources so that those choices become even harder as they move through the adventure. Player: Should i use my fate point now or save it for whats coming? GM: make your choice.