Topic: RMU - Impossible to Dodge Whilst Running ?

[zzMannyzz]

So, I was running RMU last night and had a situation where a PC was chasing an NPC and used a monk leaping spell to get ahead of that NPC and then was waiting to intercept said NPC.

I said the NPC was running full pelt past him so I'd give him the full dodge bonus.

My players pointed out to me in the rules that if you dodge whilst running you get a -75 on your dodge.

Obviously, I'll be changing that in my game as I personally disagree with that.

But, I'd like to understand how others cope with this and potentially the thinking that went into that dodge rule.

As a simple example, is it not obvious that a moving target is far easier to hit with a bow than a target that's not moving?

I'm quite perplexed about this strange part of the rules and would really like to hear how others are coping with / explaining / understanding this too.

[Hurin]

I understand what you are saying, though I would note that if a character is flat out sprinting, it is likely not Dodging. To full out sprint, you need to go roughly in a straight line, and so you don't have much extra time to dodge out of the way.

You can see the difference in a rugby or American football game. The ball carrier who is dodging and breaking tackles and trying to find a hole in the defense is not yet bringing the ball up the field at maximum speed. In a case like that, the running back is probably moving at say 2x pace and spending the other 2 AP for the round on a partial Dodge.

To fully and completely dodge with the maximum flexibility, a character would have to be mostly stationary. Take for example the case of the guys who catch arrows shot from bows: they're not running. They are mostly standing still and doing a full dodge.

So, that's how I rationalize it.

Now, some of us did consider houseruling a DB bonus for character movement because just plain movement, even in a straight line, does make a target harder to hit; that is just an empirical truth. So, you could give an additonal, universal DB bonus of say +1/10' of movement as a houserule if you wanted to reflect that.

[nash]

So, I was running RMU last night and had a situation where a PC was chasing an NPC and used a monk leaping spell to get ahead of that NPC and then was waiting to intercept said NPC.

I said the NPC was running full pelt past him so I'd give him the full dodge bonus.

My players pointed out to me in the rules that if you dodge whilst running you get a -75 on your dodge.

FWIW; I'd probably allow footwork to be applied to that dodge penalty.

[Hurin]

That is an interesting idea for a houserule. Note that Footwork already applies to melee attacks, so in the current RAW I think a character could actually declare an attack and get a parry bonus even while moving up to 2x pace. But they couldn't Dodge or Shield block in the RAW because Footwork only applies to melee, which is why you'd have to houserule it for Dodge or Shield block.

Personally, I don't use Footwork at all, which is why I look to other solutions.

[nash]

That is an interesting idea for a houserule. Note that Footwork already applies to melee attacks, so in the current RAW I think a character could actually declare an attack and get a parry bonus even while moving up to 2x pace. But they couldn't Dodge or Shield block in the RAW because Footwork only applies to melee, which is why you'd have to houserule it for Dodge or Shield block.

Personally, I don't use Footwork at all, which is why I look to other solutions.

Footwork is kinda weird.  It looks innocuous, but then you realise that with 5 ranks a melee character can make a free move each round.  With 10 ranks it's a charge at no penalty.   

Of course a knack subtracts one from each of those ranks, and profession bonus means 3 ranks gets you a move at -2 (essentially nothing) and 7 for the -3 charge penalty.

Having said that - it's restriction to just melee seems a little too restricted.

[Hurin]

Yes, those issues as well as the issue of what exactly Footwork really represents (and why it can't also apply to other types of attacks) were some of the issues that led me to remove Footwork.

The other reason for me is that I have reduced the cost of melee and ranged attacks to 3 AP, thus allowing all characters 1 AP more in the turn for movement. So characters can move up to their BMR and still attack at full each turn. I have not needed Footwork after that.

[pastaav]

My take on this is that in real life it is quite trivial to take a swing at somebody sprinting past you. Ranged attacks on somebody moving quickly is different ballpark, but melee attacks against a running target is not a big deal.

The runners movement mass mean it takes real effort for the runner to not be on spot where I am aiming. If the runner does a skill check that benefit from movement like acrobatics or jumping we can discuss if the penalty due to pace should apply, but for a dodge I really don't see why these should stack unless the runner has enough AP to pay for both things.

[Wolfwood]

As others have said, running full sprint does not really give a chance to dodge anything. Just look at Olympic short distance runners - there is no way they could suddenly change direction or do some other fancy moves at those speeds and not fall down and injure themselves. Their path is predictable - exactly what you do not want in melee.