Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Shadow World => Topic started by: kwickham on December 21, 2018, 02:18:43 PM
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I recently posted a setting post in RMU beta.
Many promoted SW as a possible setting for RMU.
I do not own any SW products.
But if there is one SW product with RMU stats at an introductory—beginning level 1 product—available at the time of RMU release I will buy, and many others that might be new to SW and RM, by adding that product into my DriveThru shopping cart and check out paying for that product simultaneously.
I'm not going to wait for SW to convert something a month or more later. Within one month of purchasing the core, I will play a setting, with or without SW.
I hope that you third party converters find something, and receive the rules early enough, to present something.
I believe that RMU really needs an introductory adventure available at the same time as the release of the core.
I've heard in that post that third party would create a converted product from existing material. I hope that those that volunteers to do so be given the tools such as an advanced copy of the RMU rules early enough to make such conversion.
If there is not a SW product at the time of RMU's release, I'm afraid that the ship will sale on me and Shadow World.
Even a 15 to 50 page beginning level 1 to 4 or 5 ready-to-run adventure will do.
I'm not asking for SW Atlas RMU (do that later), just a simple maybe 3 part adventure.
I don't want to make my own RMU setting, but will do so only as the last resort. If that happens, its unlikely I'll ever try SW again, or until the next RM version release 10+ more years.
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I agree. But, why convert? Take a small module (Quellebourne/Norek/Xa'ar) and re-imagine a pre-gen adventure for RMU. Shrine of the Spider Goddess (Quellebourne) has a nice classic FRP ring to it and some maps to support it. Just detail that. One fantastic gentle-person did that for Cyradon and that was a great success IMO. ICE needs to create new IP not recycle the exact books over and over again. Once enough of the smaller adventures are published and generating interest and revenue then ICE can either create new modules or just release an addendum for a book. Also, republishing somewhat limits layout and art etc. I'm not sure what ICEs standard will be moving forward but a book the size & quality of the SW players guide (which is a beautiful publication) could be the goal. And speaking of players guides.....a SW book that is more in line with the D&D players guide would be an excellent idea. Something that trims the races/cultures down to a not overwhelming volume and a potential player can purchase for $5. I would regionalize it. Then release a GM & players guide for each region. Ie. Northen Jaiman, the Bay of Izar, Thuul, etc. I've always firmly belived (by my own track record) you can always sell more $$$ worth of 3$-6$ publications than 20$+ publications.
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Somewhere on Nicholas's desk is a module called Priest King of Shade. It is a SW Module and it is my undersranding that it is just awaiting RMU stats and an editing pass.
It is entirely possible that Priest King is your gateway product. I will confess I haven't read it as I don't do SW except as a player.
I don't know much about Priest King, but I know a man who does.
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There must be something in the air, because I've been wondering this same thing; namely if I was to start a campaign in ShadowWorld, where would I start them?
I think my first choice would be "Tales from the Green Gryphon Inn". As one review said, it's not a setting supplement, adventure book, nor a campaign, it's all three in a sandbox LIKE manner. I'd say it's typical Amthor manner, the book goes into exhaustive detail about the town and the surrounding area. After that, then it gives you 9 adventures to get going with, and several seed ideas.
The major downside here is that, as RPGNow states, it provides "stats for major NPCs in Rolemaster Second Edition/RM Classic and RMRFP /RMSS." Could they be converted? Absolutely. PITA, but doable. I wonder if that kind of thing couldn't be community sourced, but there I wonder if you wouldn't have the problem of how only beta testers could see it.
In the end, I suspect I'll end up using one of the skeleton outlines from "Eidolon: City in the Sky" as a one-shot to introduce my group. I've always loved the Eidolon and Sel-Kai setting, so starting them there is easiest for me. However, I've also been considering converting some other system's adventure module over to RMU. Not many d100 generic adventures, so I've been looking hard at Monte Cook's "Ptolus Adventures" book, and/or the starter adventure from Zweihander. The latter is already a d100 system, so it might be the most forgiving. =)
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I agree. But, why convert? Take a small module (Quellebourne/Norek/Xa'ar) and re-imagine a pre-gen adventure for RMU. Shrine of the Spider Goddess (Quellebourne) has a nice classic FRP ring to it and some maps to support it. Just detail that. One fantastic gentle-person did that for Cyradon and that was a great success IMO. ICE needs to create new IP not recycle the exact books over and over again. Once enough of the smaller adventures are published and generating interest and revenue then ICE can either create new modules or just release an addendum for a book. Also, republishing somewhat limits layout and art etc. I'm not sure what ICEs standard will be moving forward but a book the size & quality of the SW players guide (which is a beautiful publication) could be the goal. And speaking of players guides.....a SW book that is more in line with the D&D players guide would be an excellent idea. Something that trims the races/cultures down to a not overwhelming volume and a potential player can purchase for $5. I would regionalize it. Then release a GM & players guide for each region. Ie. Northen Jaiman, the Bay of Izar, Thuul, etc. I've always firmly belived (by my own track record) you can always sell more $$$ worth of 3$-6$ publications than 20$+ publications.
I like that idea.
Okay, looking at Quellborne as an example,
I can only see what is on the table of contents preview for Quellborne.
If one uses the Shrine of the Spider Goddess as the example. It looks like it might take up 1 page for introduction and partial history pertaining the shrine. 1 page for the land around the shrine and flora & fauna. 1/2 page for the Worshippers of the Spider Goddess. 1/2 page for places of power: the shrine of the spider goddess. 2 or 3 pages for places of adventure: The Shrine of the Spider Goddess. A partial page for PC background for the adventure. And 1 to 3 pages of charts for the adventure. That's about 10 pages for one single adventure if the table of contents is approximately correct.
I'd pay $1.99 for that single adventure if it has RMU stats, much like me buying a $1.50 mp3 song.
I think my first choice would be "Tales from the Green Gryphon Inn". As one review said, it's not a setting supplement, adventure book, nor a campaign, it's all three in a sandbox LIKE manner. I'd say it's typical Amthor manner, the book goes into exhaustive detail about the town and the surrounding area. After that, then it gives you 9 adventures to get going with, and several seed ideas.
It looks like this book can be divided into smaller adventures or packaged into smaller chunks.
For a PDF, I'd pay $0.99 to $2.99 for a single Shrine of the Spider Goddess or Tales from the Green Gryphon Inn adventure chunk—lower if it is only text and lacks maps and art and higher if it had map and art. This is like buying a single song from an album—an MP3.
For a three part adventure of Quellborne or Green Gryphon Inn, I'd pay $5 range especially if they are connected, if include ~20-25 pages with maps and art, I'd expect that the third one finish off a major trilogy storyline and leave open further Quellborne or Green Gryphon Inn connections bringing my players levels up a few levels. This is like buying a single novel, music album, or watching/renting a movie.
For a regional sourcebook, I'd pay $10 to $20 for a full campaign regional area. This is like getting a greatest-hits album, a box set of books, a season of a TV show, or a movie series set.
If at a minimum, there is a single 10 page adventure for $1.99 or 2.99, I'll buy it and wait for futher RMU SW products. It would be better if there is at least a trilogy to keep me busy a few months while the rest of the content for RMU is made.
Maybe it's a good option for Terry releasing more one-shot 10 page adventures if he wants to, which I assume only would take less then a month to make, maybe even a week or two.
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Rolemasterblog.com has published 47 d100 adventure seeds for use with Rolemaster. Most are only a single page but can be easily combined to make a more complex module. Most cost less than 99 cents.
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Rolemasterblog.com has published 47 d100 adventure seeds for use with Rolemaster. Most are only a single page but can be easily combined to make a more complex module. Most cost less than 99 cents.
Honestly I just bought that earlier this week on drivethrurpg. Early holiday present to me from me. =) Not had a chance to look through them all yet, but I suspect I'll be happy with the purchase.
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Somewhere on Nicholas's desk is a module called Priest King of Shade. It is a SW Module and it is my undersranding that it is just awaiting RMU stats and an editing pass.
It is entirely possible that Priest King is your gateway product. I will confess I haven't read it as I don't do SW except as a player.
I don't know much about Priest King, but I know a man who does.
What level is Priest King of Shade?
I'm going to be looking for level 1 to 3, 4, or 5. Unless it's long enough to cover 1 to finish.
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Rolemasterblog.com has published 47 d100 adventure seeds for use with Rolemaster. Most are only a single page but can be easily combined to make a more complex module. Most cost less than 99 cents.
If they are with stats for RMU, then maybe if SW doesn't reveal a RMU at by the core release. But I'm looking for ICE Shadow World entrance first.
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Anything released should weave RMU into SW as a way of combining the the IP. The RM rule-set should be tweaked to properly reflect SW (which is already better than previous versions of RM IMO). So, that a new player is playing a SW game not a RM game.
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Anything released should weave RMU into SW as a way of combining the the IP. The RM rule-set should be tweaked to properly reflect SW (which is already better than previous versions of RM IMO). So, that a new player is playing a SW game not a RM game.
I agree, RMU's entry module needs to be a SW module. And tweaking the rules to reflect SW is also a must in order to properly marry RMU to SW. Terry, Nicholas & everyone at ICE should be sitting down & deciding what SW area should be used as the entry point (Green Gryphon or Eidolon make a lot of sense for many reasons. Also, re-working adventures from other modules (e.g. Spider Goddess) would also work & be a quick way to get the intro module put together (with some new updates to spice things up). Again, I think there is a willing community of RMU playtesters who would be willing to help with stat conversion (since I know Terry prefers the RM2 ruleset (as do I ;D)).
But that's just my 2¢s…
Nightblade ->--
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None of the Rolemaster Blog adventure hooks are started for any specific RM version although I slip a few new monsters in here and there.
Also for clarification, the adventures I publish in the monthly fanzine are NOT Shadow World. I know nothing about SW and it would almost certainly trample all over Terry's intellectual property.
In 2019 I will focus on writing adventures for levels 1-5 Just in case there is a an RMU release. At least that way there will be a selection of starter adventures available at 99 cents each.
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I know these aren't specifically Terry's books, but this is more for third party developers or those that will help make SW RMU happen. I do so by not really caring about canonical books, rather just trying to get at least one thing for RMU.
As a sign of good faith for SW RMU hopes for a release beginning product, I just bought the six $7 or less Shadow World books which are not in RMU format.
$7 Shadow World Player Guide - The World
$5 Quellbourne: Land of the Silver Mist
$5 Kingdom of the Desert Jewel
$5 Islands of the Oracle
$5 Demons of the Burning Night
$4 The World of Vog Mur
$31 total
This would be like my version of Shadow World RMUkickstarter pledge of $31. Where I get my reward instantly.
I'm doing so just to dangle a carrot for those third party RMU Shadow World developers and end this post thread on a positive note.
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Anything released should weave RMU into SW as a way of combining the the IP. The RM rule-set should be tweaked to properly reflect SW (which is already better than previous versions of RM IMO). So, that a new player is playing a SW game not a RM game.
I agree, RMU's entry module needs to be a SW module. And tweaking the rules to reflect SW is also a must in order to properly marry RMU to SW. Terry, Nicholas & everyone at ICE should be sitting down & deciding what SW area should be used as the entry point (Green Gryphon or Eidolon make a lot of sense for many reasons. Also, re-working adventures from other modules (e.g. Spider Goddess) would also work & be a quick way to get the intro module put together (with some new updates to spice things up). Again, I think there is a willing community of RMU playtesters who would be willing to help with stat conversion (since I know Terry prefers the RM2 ruleset (as do I ;D)).
But that's just my 2¢s…
Nightblade ->--
Green Gryphon started as a small adventure but ballooned! But it is good setting. Maybe I am naive (and/or ignorant) but I don't understand the angst about going to RMU. We already use RM Classic (And yes I prefer it, because I know it! 8)) and RM RMSS stats (converted by a third party) and they seem very similar to me. Certainly this is a small jump compared to converting to D&D... ?
And feel free to correct me; I promise not to be offended. I feel for Nicholas, because I will probably not learn RMU, so he will need someone to convert it for SW future book stats.
One question: it was suggested that with RMU we revise the page layout. I am for it, but not for wasteful gunk in the margins like 'Powers' but of course we want to use color. Any thoughts?
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One question: it was suggested that with RMU we revise the page layout. I am for it, but not for wasteful gunk in the margins like 'Powers' but of course we want to use color. Any thoughts?
Stuff like that is okay - as long as you can either turn it off for printing, by using layers, or have a version that doesn't have it, which also tends to work better on mobile devices. I like full colour layouts with backgrounds, but not if I have to print them out! SWMA4 and Powers are both older PDFs and don't have layers. Newer ones probably wouldn't have the same problem.
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Realistically once Creatures & Treasures in complete the stats for a SW module should be basically cut & paste right? The rest would be NPCs and I'm not sure that anything beyond an estimated set of skill bonuses etc is really necessary. If the stats are included as an addendum for example they could be extra pamphlets (helping to hide them from players prying eyes..lol). The other considerations would be Difficulty Ratings for things like locks, traps, and maneuvers. When I write my own stuff I list them as "Hard, Medium" then use the relevant mods for whatever system I am running with. All this to say that something like Green Gryphon could be easily re-skinned to RMU IMO.
To me: writing the system into the setting and writing the setting into the system adds a layer of protection for theft (thin as that may be) and shifts the perception from playing Rolemaster to playing Shadow World. I know, based on my 20+ years of peddling both, there will be greater success is getting new players to try a Shadow World campaign than a Rolemaster campaign. So, if a short free to try product hits the market as Shrine of the Spider Queen: A Shadow World Adventure. You are more likely to get that into the hands of new players & GMs.
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Converting to RMU would require stat bonus and skill adjustments for NPCs, since that's where the bulk of the changes occur. I suspect that wouldn't necessarily be hard one the conversion formula is determined, but it would be labor-intensive.
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Converting to RMU would require stat bonus and skill adjustments for NPCs, since that's where the bulk of the changes occur. I suspect that wouldn't necessarily be hard one the conversion formula is determined, but it would be labor-intensive.
NPC attribute stats & skills might be the easiest part of a conversion.
I don't know if formulas would work well. I just looked at the 1984 World of Vog Mur wolves on page 28. The wolves there probably would be one of the easier to make stats for since there are wolves in RMU CL. Offensive archetype Wolves are on pg 876 (digital 878) of RMU Creature Law.
The wolves avg level is too low. HP is slightly high, AT a little high, and DB is far too high. The OB is a tiny bit too high. It's missing the bash attack, though it has a bite attack. A strict numerical conversion would miss the bash attack addition.
With RMU, you could even make different types of wolves quickly just knowing the wolf race template and the offensive level archetype, not just the offensive default level wolves.
It might be best to start with the RMU base creature race stats, add the archetype bonuses for the SW level, and then adjust from there based on the SW spirit or essence of the NPC. RMU Creature Law numbers will not be genre specific escept maybe skills.
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One question: it was suggested that with RMU we revise the page layout. I am for it, but not for wasteful gunk in the margins like 'Powers' but of course we want to use color. Any thoughts?
Of the newer material, I only have the 2010 SW Player's Guide.
These are suggestions for layout based on what I have seen in other new games released in the past year and that I have bought.
The ones that look the best use color faded or transparent color backgrounds that don't interfere with the text. For background images, the colors blue, tan, and green are the most common colors. Some have background images using paper or marble. Futuristic books have circuit board-like, user interface circles, and curved ergonomic pattersm. Most of the color patterns are visible in the margins and fades more at the text block area. Some have interesting subtle patterns.
In all games that look great, they do add margin borders or frames if they do not have background images. They very from recognizable objects to patterns to almost abstract images. They don't, however, take your eyes away from the text. They don't add any margin text, especially that distracting sideways text.
Size-wise, they stay under 100 MB, preferably around 10 to 30 MB in size.
Having a layered document or a second plain printable version that only has text without any images would be great, since you know the price of printing ink is high.
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Having a layered document or a second plain printable version that only has text without any images would be great, since you know the price of printing ink is high.
I've often wondered about layers in PDF's, particularly how comfortable it is for non-techies to access. I ask because for something like ShadowWorld, where HARP and RM both support it, if it wouldn't be possible to simply keep all system-specific creatures, etc in layers separate from the base text. One PDF, but supports as many systems as you care, depending on which layers are visible and/or printed.
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Anything released should weave RMU into SW as a way of combining the the IP. The RM rule-set should be tweaked to properly reflect SW (which is already better than previous versions of RM IMO). So, that a new player is playing a SW game not a RM game.
I agree, RMU's entry module needs to be a SW module. And tweaking the rules to reflect SW is also a must in order to properly marry RMU to SW. Terry, Nicholas & everyone at ICE should be sitting down & deciding what SW area should be used as the entry point (Green Gryphon or Eidolon make a lot of sense for many reasons. Also, re-working adventures from other modules (e.g. Spider Goddess) would also work & be a quick way to get the intro module put together (with some new updates to spice things up). Again, I think there is a willing community of RMU playtesters who would be willing to help with stat conversion (since I know Terry prefers the RM2 ruleset (as do I ;D)).
But that's just my 2¢s…
Nightblade ->--
Green Gryphon started as a small adventure but ballooned! But it is good setting. Maybe I am naive (and/or ignorant) but I don't understand the angst about going to RMU. We already use RM Classic (And yes I prefer it, because I know it! 8)) and RM RMSS stats (converted by a third party) and they seem very similar to me. Certainly this is a small jump compared to converting to D&D... ?
And feel free to correct me; I promise not to be offended. I feel for Nicholas, because I will probably not learn RMU, so he will need someone to convert it for SW future book stats.
One question: it was suggested that with RMU we revise the page layout. I am for it, but not for wasteful gunk in the margins like 'Powers' but of course we want to use color. Any thoughts?
Believe me Terry, I'm an old RM2 guy like you & I'm still not fully sold on RMU. However, I think ICE as a business needs to put most of their Rolemaster efforts into RMU - which means SW for RMU. I fully understand why you will continue to create, update & write SW modules using the RM2/RMC ruleset (as I do with my own world of Nytheun). I'm sure ICE can find many people willing to convert your RM2/RMC stats to RMU. So yes, I feel for Nicholas as well.
I also agree about the "gunk" - more room for material & less fluff that fills the margins. Keep up the great work Terry!
Nightblade ->--
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What I really miss about Rolemaster today and ICE is the lack of adventures, short modules to introduce people or throw when the PC goes in an unexpected way.
RMU could be an excellent way to start with that, I would start with Lvl 1 adventures, at least 2 or 3. Later ICE can follow with longer works.
I always thought that the way MERP was introduced was excellent, you had ready-to-run, modules that fleshed the land and campaigns for full kingdoms.
I own all SW books and I will keep buying everything by TKA, but I would like to buy more
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What I really miss about Rolemaster today and ICE is the lack of adventures, short modules to introduce people or throw when the PC goes in an unexpected way.
RMU could be an excellent way to start with that, I would start with Lvl 1 adventures, at least 2 or 3. Later ICE can follow with longer works.
I always thought that the way MERP was introduced was excellent, you had ready-to-run, modules that fleshed the land and campaigns for full kingdoms.
I own all SW books and I will keep buying everything by TKA, but I would like to buy more
Actually, Nicholas and I discussed the idea of very short modules. I am in the planning stage of writing one, perhaps for RMU, depending on which is finished first. As you may know,each of the https://www.rpgnow.com/product/23297/Guild-Adventurer-1?manufacturers_id=461&it=1 (https://www.rpgnow.com/product/23297/Guild-Adventurer-1?manufacturers_id=461&it=1) Guild Adventure books has a SW adventure also.
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Everything I write is in the short, broad brushstroke variety that I learned from MERP and the SW modules. Setup, task, NPCs, Maps, and Monsters....done. Let the GM have creative license over the details. It's not that I dislike the fully detailed modules from other games; it's that I feel like I'm playing their story, not collaborating to write one of our own.
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Everything I write is in the short, broad brushstroke variety that I learned from MERP and the SW modules. Setup, task, NPCs, Maps, and Monsters....done. Let the GM have creative license over the details. It's not that I dislike the fully detailed modules from other games; it's that I feel like I'm playing their story, not collaborating to write one of our own.
The problem I personally have with this approach is the "task" part. It makes all adventures appear very mercenary-like - this was one of my major gripes with the SW/MERP/SpM adventure format, and the main reason I never used any single one - in all my years as a GM, I never GMed a session where the "task" was pre-set.
I'd rather have a detailed setup, one or (preferably) more conflicts, and, optionally, predefined characters with motivations to resolve some of the conflicts. For instance, the old Vog Mur module never laid out any "task" for the players to complete - the setup was described and detailed, and several conflicts were pretty much obvious - that's the kind of adventure I wish to see published: settings to explore and conflicts to resolve (Vog Mur, Cloudlords of Tanara and Iron Wind are still the benchmark against which I rate all modules).
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The problem I personally have with this approach is the "task" part. It makes all adventures appear very mercenary-like - this was one of my major gripes with the SW/MERP/SpM adventure format, and the main reason I never used any single one - in all my years as a GM, I never GMed a session where the "task" was pre-set.
I'd rather have a detailed setup, one or (preferably) more conflicts, and, optionally, predefined characters with motivations to resolve some of the conflicts. For instance, the old Vog Mur module never laid out any "task" for the players to complete - the setup was described and detailed, and several conflicts were pretty much obvious - that's the kind of adventure I wish to see published: settings to explore and conflicts to resolve (Vog Mur, Cloudlords of Tanara and Iron Wind are still the benchmark against which I rate all modules).
That sounds as if you prefer a more sandbox approach to adventures (I'm personally fond of hex crawls and similar).
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I like them both. But, when we're talking about writing an adventure that usually implies a set story arch. And lets face it, just because the task is there, doesn't mean it's going to be what the PCs end up doing, right? That is essentially my favorite element of a table top RPG. Best laid plans that go awry generally lead to better gaming.
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I love Cloudlords and Iron Wind as settings, but not really as adventures. I'd like to have both: great setting books like those old ones, and some new adventures that are more focused like the better DnD adventures or the Pathfinder adventure paths. I've always felt that RM was a bit lacking the latter: they don't have to be 'on the rails' adventures, but a bit more things like boxed text, different acts, a more GM-Friendly walkthrough, would all be appreciated (by me, at least).
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I personally love the deep setting source book, with skeleton adventure ideas, particularly those that suggest how they might integrate into a larger picture. When it's done well (for example: Eidolon/Sel-Kai), I feel it gives a new GM a handy, ready to access setting that is detailed enough to draw nuance and flavor from, but not so tightly wound that there isn't room for their ideas. Zeitgeist: The Dying Skyseer is another good example of this.
I've been very happy delving deep into the Eidolon and Sel-Kai setting. I'm currently running it as a big sandbox for our group. I do GM away from heavy Canon character interaction, but having that deep background detail to draw inspiration from helps enormously. It also helps (but beyond this conversation) is the Loremaster Legacy book. Great detailed information the source book only hinted at. =)
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Actually, Nicholas and I discussed the idea of very short modules. I am in the planning stage of writing one, perhaps for RMU, depending on which is finished first. As you may know,each of the https://www.rpgnow.com/product/23297/Guild-Adventurer-1?manufacturers_id=461&it=1 Guild Adventure books has a SW adventure also.
I have all of them but this is not what I meant except maybe for Rose Petals and Snow Lions. I think we need more books like Green Gryphon but shorter, focused in areas that have been covered in books with a broader scope.
E.g. Short book with 3 linked adventures detailing fights against Praeten/Xooba pirates, the PC could start in Kaitaine or Sel-Kai, or even Lethys.
My games are not either mercenary in the sense of a band of adventurers like I have seen in some D&D, that vision does not work for me. But sometimes you need to get some crunchy data. These days I am running a game where one PC has to go from Celebi to Rapata just to check if the old highway is still ok and Ulor could invade Saral using Xa-ar. What I am doing is to throw encounters from other games that I find interesting for rural areas, righ now the road is the adventure.
At the same time, other PC travelled to Rapata by skyship from Lethys and I'm using material from Xa-ar book, in this case, the city and the factions are enough to keep him occupied.
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The old 'Tales of the Loremasters' Shadow World books used to be short adventures, or collections of adventures. They weren't always so closely linked together as say a DnD or Pathfinder module, but they were the sort of adventure that you could slot into a wider campaign when you needed something you could plug and play.
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The old 'Tales of the Loremasters' Shadow World books used to be short adventures, or collections of adventures. They weren't always so closely linked together as say a DnD or Pathfinder module, but they were the sort of adventure that you could slot into a wider campaign when you needed something you could plug and play.
The problem with 'Tales...' was the quality, between terrible and the pits, we talk about extremely generic adventures or just encounters and many of them were difficult to fit in a game linked to canon. Almost every adventure module for SW looked like somebody submitted the adventure they had been running in a completely different milieu and adapted using 3 or 4 terms from the Atlas.
Many years ago I started to write an adventure following a Scribe of Nomikos with a Changramai guard doing grave robb...archeology, it was an easy way to introduce concepts while playing, unfortunately I moved to another city and I never tested it with players.
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Many years ago I started to write an adventure following a Scribe of Nomikos with a Changramai guard doing grave robb...archeology, it was an easy way to introduce concepts while playing, unfortunately I moved to another city and I never tested it with players.
Maybe now might be the time to resurrect it -- as some of us look to put together introductory RMU adventures!
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Maybe now might be the time to resurrect it -- as some of us look to put together introductory RMU adventures!
The skeleton was quite clear, the thing was that using a scribe of Nomikos as described in first edition of the Atlas helps to give missions with a good excuse.
The first one was meant to happen in Silaar, exploring some ruins in Thanor after a map had been acquired by Nomikos. The PC's could be the scribe and the Changramai bodyguard plus some people that they could meet in Sel-Kai, Nuyan-Khom or Reandor.
My objective was to use the adventure Tablets of Varna from Emer and maybe the adventure Sold when they were coming back to civilization. Unfortunately, my writing is all in Spanish, but I could translate it and upload it to the Vault.
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There has been some efforts in the past to make something like an Adventure Path for Kulthea, and I think it could be an excellent way to introduce the people to the game.
My election would be the Sea Drake Legacy from Jaiman book with a lot of tweaks, during a span of 5 years (6046-6051), the characters have to travel to the following places:
• Gryphon
• Prevan
• Helyssa/ Vorn
• Nomikos
• Wuliris
• Jamiil Targ
• Arion
• Velenna
• Syrkara
And all of this happens while there is a civil war in Rhakhaan, the invasion of forces from Yarth and Lorgalis in Vorn, Norek and West Rhakhaan and the Storm Wizard intervention that makes travel almost impossible.
To start with that effort it would be necessary to make a deeper approach to Helyssa, Vorn and the other domains in the area, and the relationship within them.
When I run that campaign the first thing I changed was the knowledge that Kier has, if he knows everything about Crown, Sword and Pendant, why he should go to the Tower first? It seems more logical that he tries to go first to get the Crown if he thinks he's the right ruler of U-Lyshak. In the Gryphon college they know everything you need to know about Crowns.
So I decided Helyssa was a princedom and the ruling symbol was the Pendant, Kier wanted to recover the Pendant as the legitimate ruler of Helyssa, U-Lyshak was a glory from the past.
I was quite sure they would fail to recover the Pendant as attacking the Tower at low level seems suicide, so I put them in the middle of a big chaos between Yarth and Lorgalis forces, forced allies fighting agains each other so fleeing was easy. They had to flee to Norek as going north was difficult, and Boshkar would be happy to kill Kier if he finds him.
So in Norek, under siege by Lorgalis forces they knew about the Crown and the Sword and decided to head Nomikos.
I can develop a little bit more, but comments are welcome.
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So, to play devil's advocate, why does an introductory adventure have to entwine PCs in politics and world happenings? Why can't it just be a short "go here, do this, and also you can learn about Essence Storms (or some other unique to SW aspect).
I personally would have an introductory adventure have the PCs just on the outside of the real ebb and flow of the world. Something like being commissioned to retrieve proof of birth-right for a young Noble looking to stay on the "good side" of a some civil unrest. PCs don't really need to be swept into things IMO. At low-levels they should be motivated by their purse and the survivability of the task at hand.
You can do some name-dropping and build the macro world through a short, tight adventure.
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I would say that if you want an introductory adventure for SW it has to get some of the flavor, it could be polictics, it could be travelling by navigator or the Essaence storm you mention. We only should flee from too generic adventures, unless we want it generic and not linked to this milieu.
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I would say that if you want an introductory adventure for SW it has to get some of the flavor, it could be polictics, it could be travelling by navigator or the Essaence storm you mention. We only should flee from too generic adventures, unless we want it generic and not linked to this milieu.
I agree. There are multitudes of 'generic can-be-anything' modules and adventures available; I've bought dozens of dozens of them from DTRPG. Yet they all have the flavor of packing peanuts; bland, bland, bland. I agree that having a set of adventures that incorporates even a few important concepts from ShadowWorld gives not only an easier to tweak resource, but it helps give official definition and substance to those world concepts for new and existing players.
For example: Although not a 'module', several of my players have read the 1st Loremaster novel (thanks Terry). Their appreciation of the world and the environment is leaps and bounds beyond what it would have been even after a dozen gaming sections. Like it or not, D&D tropes widely infect even generic modules. Having SW concept inclusive modules both help clarify the difference between that bias, and at the same time (IMHO) help negate that influence too.
Now, of course, SW 'flavor' can be added, and I personally think it's part of a good GM's job. However more often than not, that effort is a whole cloth rewrite; removing generic creatures, races, treasure and magical concepts big and small. I.e. I just tweaked a D&D Adventurers League module. 12 pages, and I bet I tweaked and rewrote 8 pages; in particularly removing and tweaking D&D-lite magical concepts, races, rewards not to mention the overall theme.
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I would say that if you want an introductory adventure for SW it has to get some of the flavor, it could be polictics, it could be travelling by navigator or the Essaence storm you mention. We only should flee from too generic adventures, unless we want it generic and not linked to this milieu.
I agree. There are multitudes of 'generic can-be-anything' modules and adventures available; I've bought dozens of dozens of them from DTRPG. Yet they all have the flavor of packing peanuts; bland, bland, bland. I agree that having a set of adventures that incorporates even a few important concepts from ShadowWorld gives not only an easier to tweak resource, but it helps give official definition and substance to those world concepts for new and existing players.
For example: Although not a 'module', several of my players have read the 1st Loremaster novel (thanks Terry). Their appreciation of the world and the environment is leaps and bounds beyond what it would have been even after a dozen gaming sections. Like it or not, D&D tropes widely infect even generic modules. Having SW concept inclusive modules both help clarify the difference between that bias, and at the same time (IMHO) help negate that influence too.
Now, of course, SW 'flavor' can be added, and I personally think it's part of a good GM's job. However more often than not, that effort is a whole cloth rewrite; removing generic creatures, races, treasure and magical concepts big and small. I.e. I just tweaked a D&D Adventurers League module. 12 pages, and I bet I tweaked and rewrote 8 pages; in particularly removing and tweaking D&D-lite magical concepts, races, rewards not to mention the overall theme.
Wow I am so glad to read that your players have read the first SW novel and it helped them get a feel for the world so much! Please spread the word (in reviews) and I promise to work on book two in the next few weeks, as soon as Haalkitaine is done.
https://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?term=amthor (https://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/117364/The-Loremaster-Legacy?term=amthor)
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I would say that if you want an introductory adventure for SW it has to get some of the flavor, it could be polictics, it could be travelling by navigator or the Essaence storm you mention. We only should flee from too generic adventures, unless we want it generic and not linked to this milieu.
Yes it should have some SW flavor (unlike some of the generic crap I was forced to allow back in the early days) but need not be entwined in the more complex politics.
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Hence the "go here, do this" and you can learn about Shadow World from my original post. An introductory adventure can have all kinds of things unique to Shadow World without delving into politics etc. Garks & Kral are SW specific generic bad guys. Loremasters, Navigators, Air Ships can all be around the characters without them being a part of the adventure. Even just using peripheral elements like colors of magic can be used to weave a tale specific to Shadow World. We also have to consider the "brand" of gaming that new players may be coming from and bridge the gap accordingly. Everyone knows what a dungeon crawl is. Everyone has been a caravan guard. I think the key is to retain these elements and surround them with enough SW specific flavor that you will appeal to both a new players comfort and curiosity.
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Wow I am so glad to read that your players have read the first SW novel and it helped them get a feel for the world so much! Please spread the word (in reviews) and I promise to work on book two in the next few weeks, as soon as Haalkitaine is done.
I'll let 'em know tomorrow (we are supposed to game assuming the snow storm doesn't put it off). They'll be quite happy to hear thoughts of the second is on your (busy) mind.
As far as reviews, I actually have one of the reviews on the link you provided. Not the newest one; but given I reviewed it there recently, kinda narrows it down. ;)
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Hence the "go here, do this" and you can learn about Shadow World from my original post. An introductory adventure can have all kinds of things unique to Shadow World without delving into politics etc. Garks & Kral are SW specific generic bad guys. Loremasters, Navigators, Air Ships can all be around the characters without them being a part of the adventure. Even just using peripheral elements like colors of magic can be used to weave a tale specific to Shadow World. We also have to consider the "brand" of gaming that new players may be coming from and bridge the gap accordingly. Everyone knows what a dungeon crawl is. Everyone has been a caravan guard. I think the key is to retain these elements and surround them with enough SW specific flavor that you will appeal to both a new players comfort and curiosity.
The funny thing is that when I was polling people for ideas for starting adventures for RMu it was those cliches like a dungeon crawl and caravan guard that people wanted.
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It's fun and it's appropriate for lower level characters. A dungeon crawl in particular has the benefit of giving multiple character types a chance to shine because it requires a variety of skills.
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My wife and I took a shot at taking 3 of Colin's early adventure seeds and converting into a module set in the Bay of Izar area (w conversion info for Cyradon mainland as well). For a variety of reasons we couldn't complete the module and I sent our notes to date to Nicholas. If he has no objection, I can post it here as well for general consumption. Might inspire someone else.
Regards,
Old Man
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My wife and I took a shot at taking 3 of Colin's early adventure seeds and converting into a module set in the Bay of Izar area (w conversion info for Cyradon mainland as well). For a variety of reasons we couldn't complete the module and I sent our notes to date to Nicholas. If he has no objection, I can post it here as well for general consumption. Might inspire someone else.
Regards,
Old Man
I for one would love to see it! I might be setting my next campaign in the Bay of Izar, so that would be cool.
Love your signature by the way; and I especially loved RoCo IV. I once played a Leader, and my friend played an Astral Traveller, and they were two of our most beloved characters ever.
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I for one would love to see it! I might be setting my next campaign in the Bay of Izar, so that would be cool.
Bay of Izar is a nice area for a campaign. You probably already know this, but just in case you don't, you can find a lot more about the Priesthood of Zanar in Powers of Light and Darkness in the section on the Eight Imperial Orders. In particular the section on the Order of the Cloak has a lot of detail.
The Eight Imperial Orders as a whole has a lot of stuff that could be useful in a starting campaign.
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Thanks for the tip! I do have Powers but haven't looked at it in a while. I will definitely check out that section.
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Hi all,
Didn't hear anything but figured I'd post this anyway. Hope you find it of interest.
Regards,
Old Man
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Files can take a long time to get approved, so I'm just marking this thread to check back soon.
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If you would like me to host the file do you can just link to it you can email me at weareallawesome@rolemasterblog.com.
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If you would like me to host the file do you can just link to it you can email me at weareallawesome@rolemasterblog.com.
Good Morning. Here's a share link if folk want to snag it from there -
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TaldIt69MN6MRvqWFtmzjI8VmH45xzO-/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TaldIt69MN6MRvqWFtmzjI8VmH45xzO-/view?usp=sharing)
Enjoy,
Old Man
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Hi all,
Didn't hear anything but figured I'd post this anyway. Hope you find it of interest.
Regards,
Old Man
I was interested, but read your message at night on my tablet and by the next day forgot about it! (Typing messages on a tablet is a pain, so I generally don't bother.) Thanks for posting.