Topic: 'awareness vs stealth' confrontation resolution

[Dark Schneider]

From this: http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=4361.0

I'd like a good method, balanced and realistic.

Basically, I think the best is not doing a maneuver roll, with the 'success' result. IMO is better that any character involved roll with their modifiers and them compare the total results, and then based on difference the GM determine the result.

For example, a character hide with 63 (roll) + 45 (total skill) + 20 (good place to hide, maybe fallen down in high grass) = 128. That +20 could be greater, for example, with 'camouflage' clothes.
Then, searching characters should roll a total of 129+ (maybe 128+), if we are at moonlight (-25) and don't have 'night vision' we have an awareness roll of: (roll) + (skill) -25 (moonlight) = (result).

But I'd like determine those differences, to 'suspect' and to 'success'.

Too, I think that 'stalk' and 'hide' shouldn't use the same 'modifiers' or 'result compare', I think 'stalking' is harder than 'hiding', remember that a good camouflage basic is 'don't move'. So with 'stalking' the 'awareness' skill should have some advantage over the 'hiding' confrontation.
Maybe a 'sound' modifier, -25 basic if we see the 'silence' spell that give us a +25 to stalking, but can be greater depending the surface; and a 'place quality' change, for example if we hide behind a column, and we move to stalk, we lose that modifier obviously.

[Marc R]

I'm not sure I understand what part of the procedure you dislike.

One method is to move the "Defender" Hide to the Moving Maneuver table like stalk and use the percentage of sucess as the result.

That way the "Good place to hide, fallen down in tall grass" is pulled as a mod and made the justification to roll on the "Easy" column, (+20 is the "Easy" bonus on the SM table.)

So a 108 result on the easy column gives a "110" or a -110 to perception rolls to find this character. (A roll of 10+45=55 would have only been worth a -80 mod to the perception roll.)

[Ecthelion]

We use a modified variant of the Stalk & Hide vs. Perception rule to resolve stalking or hiding maneuvers. That way the maneuver resolution involves only one roll, it becomes more difficult to evade a skilled searcher and - with our modifications -  it is basically not even important whether the hiding character makes the maneuver or the searching character makes it.

But I'd like determine those differences, to 'suspect' and to 'success'.

That is also possible with our variant as the Static Maneuver Table, which we use, has different outcomes for the maneuver, depending on whether the character achieved a Partial Success, Near Success etc.

For more information you can take a look into the House Rules on my homepage.

[yammahoper]

I declare the difficulty of the mnv, roll is made, math done, total achieved.  Penalty to percieve stalker/hider is equal to skill rank BONUS in appropriate skill, plus;

Partial Success; rank bonus -10

Near Success; rank bonus + 0

Success: rank bonus +10

Absolute Success; rank bonus +30

The difficulty to spot variers, but I usually go with one step easier than the stalk/hide, so a very hard stalk is hard to see (-10) plus appropriate penalties.

Note this system of resolution results in low level PC's being seen with ease.  Also, if magic is used, I assign the spell bonus provided by the magic as a direct penalty to percieve.  So a Hues spell that provides a +50 to hide would result in an additional -50 to percieve.

Lynn

[Old Man]

I'm still using a skill rank v rank RR when both rolls are successes (with whatever target number, 100 or 111, you want to use). Otherwise the successful party sees/evade the unsuccessful one. If both are unsuccessful you can either have nothing happen or have Fate throw a wrench whereever you wish.

Ciao,
Old Man

[Marc R]

That may be the fairest way to 1 roll it:

RR ranks vs ranks, stat and level bonus as the bonus, "defender" (stalk/hide) rolls.

[Dark Schneider]

So a 108 result on the easy column gives a "110" or a -110 to perception rolls to find this character.

Because using the book rules method is TOO hard for preception to success, in that example, we need a total roll of 111(success) + 110 (hide mod.) = 221!!.
And using the rules in RMFRP point A-4.20 (% of skill bonus) makes the skill progression exponential and not linear (more % of success and more penalty to awareness), so I don't like it. Imagine that a beginner (+10 skill bonus) rolls an open-ended roll for a good success, it only have a -10 penalty to awareness, so open-ended rolls are not usefull as with other skills, I don't like again.

That may be the fairest way to 1 roll it:

RR ranks vs ranks, stat and level bonus as the bonus, "defender" (stalk/hide) rolls.

I like that, 1 roll and uses all modifiers, the only problem is that the 'defender' is the only one that can roll and open-ended roll, so it could be not just for the 'attacker'.

For multiple stealth-vs-awareness the best option IMO is everyone roll their maneuvers, save the results, and look who-perceive-who based on any total roll.

[Marc R]

The RR table is structured to "Defender Roll". . .the attack tables are "Attacker roll". . .

Going back to the book method is the only way to really do both. .

Hiding person rolls hide/stalk, as a SM/MM, with mod/column based on the situation. Their result is the modifier.

Perciever rolls awareness/perception as a SM, with a penalty/bonus based on how well the hider hid.

So sneaky rolls on the hard column since there's no cover, but they are coming up behind the target, roll+stalk bonus on hard moving maneuver gives a 50 result.

Target rolls + awareness on the Static maneuver table, -50 for sneaky's result above.

It's clunky, but it offers everyone a chance to roll open ended. I do see the point that if you define stalk/hide as the "defending" skill on the RR table, only the hider gets a chance to roll open ended, and vice versa if you make the perceiver the defender vs the hiding.

[vroomfogle]

I like things simple so do a Roll vs Roll.     A Hiding 'Success' doesn't really mean anything if no one is looking so highest roll wins.

[Arioch]

I like things simple so do a Roll vs Roll.     A Hiding 'Success' doesn't really mean anything if no one is looking so highest roll wins.

I do the same: simple and straightforward 
Once the hiding character fumbled badly  his manuever, but the searching one rolled even lower and couldn't see him... a quite comical result!