Author Topic: Invisibility vs. Infravision  (Read 2558 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline awesomesauce

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Invisibility vs. Infravision
« on: June 24, 2024, 07:41:08 PM »
I know there have been a lot of posts about invisibility, I apologize for another one. Couldn't get a clear answer on this in particular from the other posts I read.

Simply put: Can someone with infravision see an invisible person?

The argument for this would be that invisibility only works of the visual electromagnetic spectrum.
The argument against this would be that invisibility makes you invisible, which could be construed and invisible to anything, regardless of their method of seeing.

Rather than poison the well with my own opinion, I was hoping there was some 'official' ruling on this.

Offline jdale

  • RMU Dev Team
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,240
  • OIC Points +25/-25
Re: Invisibility vs. Infravision
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2024, 09:35:54 PM »
Seeing invisible things would be a significant benefit, that's the sort of thing I would not assume unless explicitly stated. However the Infravision description in RMFRP Character Law does say you get a bonus to tracking and I think that would still apply. I have had a PC track a hidden foe right up to their hiding spot (at which point combat ensued!), but that's only likely if they are stationary. (In that case the foe was using Camouflage.)

By comparison RMU Creature Law has Thermal Vision which states it will notice warmer or colder objects even if invisible (that's different from seeing them in full detail, but you could still notice a human-shaped warm figure). Also, Demon Sight includes seeing invisible things, and obviously also Invisibility Sense can do so.
System and Line Editor for Rolemaster

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,431
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Invisibility vs. Infravision
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2024, 10:03:39 PM »
RMU also has Tetrochromatic Vision, which reduces the penalties for detecting invisible creatures by 30.

I mention this because it shows you don't have to make it an absolute choice. You could make it more of a sliding scale, giving some sort of bonus rather than full vision.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline doktorjoy

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • LAER Gamemaster
Re: Invisibility vs. Infravision
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2024, 07:26:48 AM »
My group's take on Invisibility is that it's a mind-trick that causes something to be unseen regarding the sense 'sight' until such a time as something occurs to call the attention of any conscious entity that is not already aware to the subject. When you think about this, it's more complex than that one sentence seems - but we've found this to be very effective at helping us to rule on all sorts of edge cases.

Regardless of what portion of the spectrum your retinas are sensitive to, Invisibility works - because it is hiding the subject from the sense 'sight'.

Offline jdale

  • RMU Dev Team
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,240
  • OIC Points +25/-25
Re: Invisibility vs. Infravision
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2024, 10:03:46 AM »
RAW, Cloaking is that mind trick, but Invisibility is a real optical effect.
System and Line Editor for Rolemaster

Offline MisterK

  • Wise Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 762
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Invisibility vs. Infravision
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2024, 11:23:30 AM »
RAW, Cloaking is that mind trick, but Invisibility is a real optical effect.
That's how I always played the spells. Invisibility is an 'E' spell, like most illusionist spells: it really alters the physical world. Cloaking, and most of the spells from the frankly broken Enchanter profession, are (quite powerful) mind altering effects.
Additionally, Invisibility spells are not resisted. Cloaking spells are (OK, with a -50 modifier, the chances to resist are quite low, but still). On the other hand, Cloaking has no such things as fringe effect (because it does not alter the physical world), while Invisbility does.

Cloaking is extremely efficient on a scene with few targets and when you don't have to move too much (no target change). Invisibility will last much longer if you have to move or if people pass you by, but the risk of discovery is higher.

As a side note, we ruled that Invisibility only works in the visible part of the spectrum - it does not protect against longer or shorter wavelength perceptions. Otherwise, scientific minds could extend Invisibility to cover the full spectrum - microwaves, radar, x-rays, you name it. Push it a bit further, and it logically makes you immune to some radiation effects and almost all kinds of direct photon-based heat effects. It's a bit too much, and also a bit too far from the common interpretation. But it's better not to think too much about the science behind it (just like many other magical effects, such as the enlarge and reduce effects).

Offline netbat

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 270
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Invisibility vs. Infravision
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2024, 05:17:13 PM »
As a side note, we ruled that Invisibility only works in the visible part of the spectrum - it does not protect against longer or shorter wavelength perceptions. Otherwise, scientific minds could extend Invisibility to cover the full spectrum - microwaves, radar, x-rays, you name it. Push it a bit further, and it logically makes you immune to some radiation effects and almost all kinds of direct photon-based heat effects. It's a bit too much, and also a bit too far from the common interpretation. But it's better not to think too much about the science behind it (just like many other magical effects, such as the enlarge and reduce effects).

Cool! I hadn't thought about that, Invisibility as a defense against lasers! I'll have to think on that.
There is no frigate like a book to take us lands away -
                                                   Emily Dickenson