Topic: Summoner-Planar Summons spell questions

[The Chorned Jat]

Animal Summons (and other summoning spell lists in general) gives a period of time that the summoned animal will remain but the Planar Summons spells do not.  So how long do summoned planar creatures stay?

The Planar Summons spells have a duration of two rounds and the spell description says that the summoned creature appears gradually over two rounds.  Is the idea that these summoned planar creatures are gradually appearing for 2 rounds and then vanish?

[cdcooley]

Animal summoning calls creatures from nearby and controls them for a time and then they are free to leave (or stay) depending on their nature.

Planar summoning is simply transporting entities from other planes. Control of those entities is a separate step. Officially, according to Spell Law, uncontrolled entities can only remain for 2 rounds but Elementals are explicitly stated to fade after 2-20 rounds.

It's far more interesting to say that how long an uncontrolled entity remains varies. This is one of those cases where the world setting and GM desires are the controlling factor. Do the demons just fade back to their reality once no spell is controlling them after some set period of time like Elementals? Do they transport themselves home when they are ready? Can they get trapped in the new world indefinitely? Just what is a demon anyway? If you were magically transported to an alien world by strange creatures, how would you react?

[jdale]

Demonic Gate on the Cleric base list Summons says the demon appears gradually over 2 rounds, is controlled while the caster concentrates, and "will fade out over the course of 2 rounds" after the caster stops concentrating.

Gate Mastery and Entity Summons point to section 7.1.31, which specifies demons always leave if not controlled or mastered. Other entities "can only remain in the world (for more than 2 rounds) while under the influence" of appropriate mastery or control spells, so same thing really.

The implication is that, once summoned, you can keep them here as long as you keep them controlled/mastered, so the effective duration is based on the control/mastery spell rather than the duration of the summoning spell.

Elementals take 2-20 rounds to dissipate once control ends and will attack during that time (at least if you used the spell on Entity Summons). It seems reasonable to conclude that demons can take independent action during the 2 rounds they are dissipating after control ends.

[katastrophe]

That response kinda begs the question of what defines “no longer mastered”. The elemental summoning list allows summoning a servant and mastery in the 1st 6 levels. Mastery appears to be a permanent effect since it has no time or concentration component.

Do servants just stick around forever unless dispelled somehow or dismissed?  It appears from the reading of the rules (elemental companion and essence companion) that you can summon 1-3 servants (at 6th level) and essentially keep them until something happens to them (like them dying in combat).

[jdale]

An entity is no longer mastered when it dies, when the caster dies, or when the entity goes out of range. Using Order Elemental / Order Entity will also end mastery. And I don't see anything to prevent Dispelling the mastery spell.

But I do think it's the intent that you can keep 1-2 entities around indefinitely (not 3 with Entity Mastery, the spell explicitly says no more than 2). That's in line with what you can do with Mastered undead, which also have a range limit but don't have the annoying habit of returning to another plane.

[Cory Magel]

Animal Summons (and other summoning spell lists in general) gives a period of time that the summoned animal will remain but the Planar Summons spells do not.  So how long do summoned planar creatures stay?

The Planar Summons spells have a duration of two rounds and the spell description says that the summoned creature appears gradually over two rounds.  Is the idea that these summoned planar creatures are gradually appearing for 2 rounds and then vanish?

Speaking from the idea behind the Channeling Companion lists/spells you've mentioned above, the summoning of Level 1 normal creature from nearby and the summoning of an extra-planar entity that could be of Types I through III are very different things in terms of the nature of what you're summoning and it's potential usefulness (the first one isn't going to fight for you and, even if it could, is unlikely to be near as effective in doing so).  Hence the difference in the balance of power between the two in terms of control and potential duration.

[katastrophe]

An entity is no longer mastered when it dies, when the caster dies, or when the entity goes out of range. Using Order Elemental / Order Entity will also end mastery. And I don't see anything to prevent Dispelling the mastery spell.

But I do think it's the intent that you can keep 1-2 entities around indefinitely (not 3 with Entity Mastery, the spell explicitly says no more than 2). That's in line with what you can do with Mastered undead, which also have a range limit but don't have the annoying habit of returning to another plane.

From Essence Companion, Elemental Summons

5. Summon Elemental Servant—Allows caster to summon an Elemental Servant. The caster must be in range of necessary materials for the elemental type he is attempting to summon (campfire for Fire Servant, ice for Cold Servant, etc.). The Elemental will gradually manifest itself over the course of 2 rounds.

6. Master Elemental Servant—As Control Elemental Servant, except caster need not concentrate to control elemental. The elemental will remain and obey the caster until the caster is killed, the elemental is outside the range limit, or the elemental is killed. If the elemental is ever freed from this bond, it will either return to its normal plane of existence or attack the sum- moner (equal chance of either). A maximum of three Elemental Servants can be mastered by any one being at one time.

We play it that you can have them indefinitely but that makes mages with access to the spells, very potent sice they essentially have three elemental ball attacks available within 30' at all times.

[The Chorned Jat]

Thanks for all the responses! I think this is what I was missing:

Officially, according to Spell Law, uncontrolled entities can only remain for 2 rounds but Elementals are explicitly stated to fade after 2-20 rounds.

and the notion that further duration is contingent on control/mastery/other spells/etc.