Topic: Stun Removal at -50?

[eskla]

Is the penalty for being stunned (-50 or -75, mitigated by 3xSD) intended to be applied to Stun Removal maneuvers?  I'm playing using the FRP ruleset.

[jdale]

Given that the Stun Removal skill explicitly lists modifiers for the number of stun rounds already, I would assume you are not supposed to also apply the maneuver penalty for being stunned. Also, the -50/-75 penalty for being stunned only applies to "movement and maneuvering", which I take as meaning actually moving around, not all "maneuvers" in the RM sense of skill checks. Most actions don't have a penalty because they are simply impossible while stunned; stun removal skill is of course an exception to that.

[Majyk]

Confirmed that this was how we played it.
Stun Removal had no malus/mods against it due to stun effects.

[Micael]

I would assume, that you need stunned maneuvring to decrease the -50 bonus to 0- otherwise it's to easy in my opinion to ignore stunning. In FRPG it's easy to get +50 in low levels especially with talent boni. Then a medium level char is effectively immune to stunning with this skill alone...the malus from stun removal is for more the one round of stun and is much less then -50. If you ignore the -50 you in fact make stun manoeuvring skill obsolete.

[katastrophe]

Given that the Stun Removal skill explicitly lists modifiers for the number of stun rounds already, I would assume you are not supposed to also apply the maneuver penalty for being stunned. Also, the -50/-75 penalty for being stunned only applies to "movement and maneuvering", which I take as meaning actually moving around, not all "maneuvers" in the RM sense of skill checks. Most actions don't have a penalty because they are simply impossible while stunned; stun removal skill is of course an exception to that.

We have always applied the negative from being stunned to all maneuvers, including skill rolls, such as casting spells. We have never only limited it to movement.

[Hurin]

I think the -50/-75 to movement was added because originally (RM2), movement was the only action (other than parrying at half OB) allowed when stunned. All other actions were forbidden.

It might also be helpful to note that the original description of the Stunned Maneuvering skill in RM Companion 2 specified a -10 penalty to the skill roll per cumulative round of stun. Companion 2 also (confusingly) had its own Static Action table which noted both the -10/round penalty and gave additional difficulty penalties for number of rounds of stun accrued. E.g. 2 rounds of stun made the base Static Action manuever a Hard (-10) check. I say this his confusing because these difficulty levels don't line up with the simple -10/round that is mentioned both in the verbal description of the skill and in this very chart I am referencing on p. 92 of Companion 2.

[EltonJ]

I think the -50/-75 to movement was added because originally (RM2), movement was the only action (other than parrying at half OB) allowed when stunned. All other actions were forbidden.

It might also be helpful to note that the original description of the Stunned Maneuvering skill in RM Companion 2 specified a -10 penalty to the skill roll per cumulative round of stun. Companion 2 also (confusingly) had its own Static Action table which noted both the -10/round penalty and gave additional difficulty penalties for number of rounds of stun accrued. E.g. 2 rounds of stun made the base Static Action manuever a Hard (-10) check. I say this his confusing because these difficulty levels don't line up with the simple -10/round that is mentioned both in the verbal description of the skill and in this very chart I am referencing on p. 92 of Companion 2.

Let me check that, I happen to have a copy of RM Companion II.

Well, Hurin is right.  At least for the original description of the skill.

[Micael]

I think the -50/-75 to movement was added because originally (RM2), movement was the only action (other than parrying at half OB) allowed when stunned. All other actions were forbidden.

It might also be helpful to note that the original description of the Stunned Maneuvering skill in RM Companion 2 specified a -10 penalty to the skill roll per cumulative round of stun. Companion 2 also (confusingly) had its ...

I understand the historical reference but in fact many skills and rules were changed from RM2 to FRPG because of balance reasons or design or whatever. A good example are the warriormage. So of course the -50 are not only to movement, but because most other actions are not possible it's mostly irrelevant (Casting spells for example ). Thanks Micael

[Majyk]

Interesting add re: the -10/accrued rounds of stun applied as a penalty to the use of the skill.

One thing I’d also add as a GM if running a game, is that the skill takes % Activity to use, even if that is merely a 10-20% like Adrenal skill times.

As mentioned, there has to be some kind of time cost associated with shaking oneself out of having one’s bell rung while continuing on to do anything else in the round vs usually just standing there with -50% Activity from the baseline of a Stun effect.

PS: Fugg those terrorizing BBEG meat-shields!

[Micael]

I think the -50/-75 to movement was added because originally (RM2), movement was the only action (other than parrying at half OB) allowed when stunned. All other actions were forbidden.

It might also be helpful to note that the original description of the Stunned Maneuvering skill in RM Companion 2 specified a -10 penalty to the skill roll per cumulative round of stun. Companion 2 also (confusingly) had its own Static Action table which noted both the -10/round penalty and gave additional difficulty penalties for number of rounds of stun accrued. E.g. 2 rounds of stun made the base Static Action manuever a Hard (-10) check. I say this his confusing because these difficulty levels don't line up with the simple -10/round that is mentioned both in the verbal description of the skill and in this very chart I am referencing on p. 92 of Companion 2.

By the way in the german FRPG version, the newest and slighly changed edition, there is explicitely stated, that thr stunned maneuvering skill is very usefull for stunned removal skill.