Author Topic: So..  (Read 28611 times)

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Offline Peter R

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Re: So..
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2018, 04:02:42 AM »
What is needed is a really great reason why people who have never played RM should take a chance on the game.

Back in the 80s Arms Law in particular was unlike anything we had seen before.
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: So..
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2018, 07:45:14 AM »

TLTR:   Supporting material....



What is needed is a really great reason why people who have never played RM should take a chance on the game.

Back in the 80s Arms Law in particular was unlike anything we had seen before.

Having followed this theme in several threads over several years now, and seeing other games coming and going, and upstarts just taking off, it's going to be one of two things.  I have to admit, what caught the attention of my group back in college in the late 80's was "Wow!  Check out these weapons and tables and these crits!!   These are awesome!"  And we were hooked.

1)  Be something totally new and groundbreaking that everyone says "Whoa, check this out."  (A la Weapons and really awesome crit tables.  In the already flooded fantasy gaming world, that's going to be nigh impossible, but still possible.

I consider the new Star Wars FRP system groundbreaking.  It has some whacky dice conventions, but it's brilliant in the use of the Force and the balance of the Force.  While Star Wars is obviously not new, the use of the Force Dice certainly is.  A lot of my players have been heavily invested in it and they love the system.  At the last gaming session, they pulled in two more players.  At our next session, one of the players is going to host Star Wars for four more new players.  Just in a matter of 3 weeks, there are 6 existing players, 2 new players, and potentially 4 more new players.  The players of Star Wars has just doubled in my household alone.

Devil's Staircase uses a deck of playing cards instead of dice to resolve situations in game and it's brilliant as well.  I've told my gaming group about it and they are all checking it out.  It's not fantasy world setting like RM, but it's Wild West and that is a rare genre, but the use of playing cards is so different from dice, we're all interested in trying it out.


2)  Have really interesting supporting material out there that grabs the attention of players. 

This is simple math.  There are 1, maybe 2 core books hidden amongst dozens of dozens of other core books for all the different systems.  Players look at the cover and maybe flip the book over to read the back, or they maybe see the title pop up in a long list of names on several pages on a computer screen.  If we (RM players) are lucky, the viewer will click the name to see what it means.   Right off the bat, RM Universal doesn't sound appealing to me so I am not going click it.  I don't want another universal system, I want something dedicated and focused.  I have GURPS for a universal system.  I don't need a second universal system.  Given that, I may never get far enough to see the really cool features RMU offers; the armour classes, the weapon choices, the details, the professions, the spell lists, the crits, oh the lovely crits!

What does catch  my eye though, is when I scroll through a list online and I see Shadow World: Jaiman, Shadow World: Haalkatain, Shadow World: Quelbourne, Shadow World: World Atlas, Shadow World: Insert Name Here....  I look at those titles and think "What is this Shadow World?  There are a string of books for it.   Oh, it's a set of add-ons for RMU?  What the heck is RMU?  Must be pretty popular to have this much supporting material.

Instead of hoping to see "RMU Core book" standing out in a sea of titles, I see a dozen Shadow World titles peppering my screen and I can't help but notice.  One of those Shadow World books may really pique my interest.  If I really want to use it, I need RMU.  Hmmm, maybe I should see what RMU is.

It's just my opinion and thought process, but ask yourself, how many times have you gone through Amazon or RPGNow looking for something new?  What catches your eye?  Maybe one really cool looking name in a list of other really cool looking names, or seeing lots of support material with a same prefix in the title that supports a game system?

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Offline Hurin

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Re: So..
« Reply #62 on: November 13, 2018, 10:17:34 AM »
It's a shame what happened to the Middle Earth license, because that is another thing that really could hook players in: seeing some of those old Angus McBride covers and realizing you could play Rolemaster in Middle Earth. Yes, there is a new Middle Earth game and yes, I know the license is never coming back. It is just a shame.

Spectre, can you explain how the force dice work? And the whole balance of the Force? I am intrigued.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: So..
« Reply #63 on: November 13, 2018, 10:59:29 AM »

TLTR:   Supporting material....



What is needed is a really great reason why people who have never played RM should take a chance on the game.

Back in the 80s Arms Law in particular was unlike anything we had seen before.

Right off the bat, RM Universal doesn't sound appealing to me so I am not going click it.  I don't want another universal system, I want something dedicated and focused.  I have GURPS for a universal system.  I don't need a second universal system.  Given that, I may never get far enough to see the really cool features RMU offers; the armour classes, the weapon choices, the details, the professions, the spell lists, the crits, oh the lovely crits!

It is my understanding that RMU will not be called RMU or Rolemaster Universal when it is released, it will simply be 'Rolemaster".
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: So..
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2018, 01:19:27 PM »

It is my understanding that RMU will not be called RMU or Rolemaster Universal when it is released, it will simply be 'Rolemaster".

Sadly... they may be worse.  Immediately, that is going to trigger all the old stereotypes with no indicator that there have been major changes across the board and this is a new, revamped, very much streamlined version of RM.

Older generation players will see Rolemaster and immediately joke about Chartmaster and remember (inaccurately) the books of all the rules you have to have.   (All those books were optional rules, but no outsiders seem to want to listen to that part.)  New players may just gloss over it.

Another issue it's going to cause is the confusion with the existing books and which Companion goes to which flavor of RM.  Last year, I had two players purchase the incorrect books when I told them repeatedly they needed 2nd ed.  They ended up buying Classic books thinking "It wasn't FRP or SS so I thought it was correct."  We've already seen there hasn't been much in the way of simple backwards compatibility, which is fine.  If we are going to start over, then let's start over completely.

I truly hope there is going to be something to not only set it apart from the other games, but also within the RM family of games.  We already had Rolemaster and Rolemaster.

Unified?
United?
Simplified?
Phoenix?
Rerolled?
Sterling?
Platinum?
5e?  (It seems to work for another RPG :)  )


Hurin, I agree completely.  RM could have ridden the renewed interest in Middle Earth from all of the movies in recent past.  It would have been a perfect hook, then gradually release TKA's Shadow World to give players another realm to explore.
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Offline Hurin

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Re: So..
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2018, 01:41:07 PM »
Maybe simply Rolemaster: Fourth Edition.

It isn't maybe as sexy as some alternatives, but it has become industry standard, with both DnD and Pathfinder (the two big systems) using numerical editions. It also helps clarify the earlier RM editions (I am counting RM1 as First Edition; 2 and Classic as Second Edition; and then RMSS and FRP as essentially a Third Edition). Naming it Fourth Edition also shows it has ties to earlier editions, suggesting that with a bit of work, you can use all your old modules with the new rules.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: So..
« Reply #66 on: November 13, 2018, 02:39:59 PM »
Maybe simply Rolemaster: Fourth Edition.

It isn't maybe as sexy as some alternatives, but it has become industry standard, with both DnD and Pathfinder (the two big systems) using numerical editions. It also helps clarify the earlier RM editions (I am counting RM1 as First Edition; 2 and Classic as Second Edition; and then RMSS and FRP as essentially a Third Edition). Naming it Fourth Edition also shows it has ties to earlier editions, suggesting that with a bit of work, you can use all your old modules with the new rules.

Don't you mean 6th Edition, to the snappy 6e, we could get that trade marked in advance.
1st ed and RM2 are self explanatory,
3rd is RMSS
4th is RMFRP
5th is RMC
5.5 is RMX
6th is RMU
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Offline MrApollinax

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Re: So..
« Reply #67 on: November 13, 2018, 02:40:43 PM »
Rolemaster. Remastered.
Author, HARP Garden of Rain.
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: So..
« Reply #68 on: November 13, 2018, 03:14:41 PM »

Don't you mean 6th Edition, to the snappy 6e, we could get that trade marked in advance.
1st ed and RM2 are self explanatory,
3rd is RMSS
4th is RMFRP
5th is RMC
5.5 is RMX
6th is RMU

I was thinking "6e is sex-y"    8)

Rolemaster. Remastered.

I love it!
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Offline Peter R

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Re: So..
« Reply #69 on: November 13, 2018, 03:40:28 PM »
Rolemaster Sexy would stand out in a games list.
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Offline Majyk

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Re: So..
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2018, 07:07:54 PM »
Rolemaster Sexy would stand out in a games list.


So would Sexy Rolemaster, and it might even drum up extra sales from Kink Club folks around the World, too!
 ;D

Offline Spectre771

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Re: So..
« Reply #71 on: November 14, 2018, 06:26:44 AM »
Rolemaster Sexy would stand out in a games list.


So would Sexy Rolemaster, and it might even drum up extra sales from Kink Club folks around the World, too!
 ;D
WRONG ROLE PLAYING GAME!!!! LOL   :whip:
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: So..
« Reply #72 on: November 14, 2018, 10:00:08 PM »
Rolemaster Sexy would stand out in a games list.
So would Sexy Rolemaster, and it might even drum up extra sales from Kink Club folks around the World, too!
 ;D
WRONG ROLE PLAYING GAME!!!! LOL   :whip:
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: So..
« Reply #73 on: November 15, 2018, 09:07:06 PM »
Rolemaster shouldn't be released.  The revision should be completed, then paired down and customized to a setting like Cyradon and the resulting game should be released as it's own title.  You can add the "powered by the Rolemaster engine" blurb if you want.  As was the original plan years and years ago.  Revise the rules, release them as part of a creative work (a copyrightable asset) and develop support products.  Rebuild the RM brand not by waiving the RM flag, but by using it as part of new and interesting creative game worlds.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: So..
« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2018, 03:35:39 AM »
Rolemaster shouldn't be released.  The revision should be completed, then paired down and customized to a setting like Cyradon and the resulting game should be released as it's own title.  You can add the "powered by the Rolemaster engine" blurb if you want.  As was the original plan years and years ago.  Revise the rules, release them as part of a creative work (a copyrightable asset) and develop support products.  Rebuild the RM brand not by waiving the RM flag, but by using it as part of new and interesting creative game worlds.
Rolemaster as a game engine, not a game in its own right.
I totally agree with you but I think we could be a very small minority.
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: So..
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2018, 05:58:53 AM »
Rolemaster shouldn't be released.  The revision should be completed, then paired down and customized to a setting like Cyradon and the resulting game should be released as it's own title.  You can add the "powered by the Rolemaster engine" blurb if you want.  As was the original plan years and years ago.  Revise the rules, release them as part of a creative work (a copyrightable asset) and develop support products.  Rebuild the RM brand not by waiving the RM flag, but by using it as part of new and interesting creative game worlds.
Rolemaster as a game engine, not a game in its own right.
I totally agree with you but I think we could be a very small minority.

Add me to that minority then.  I think it's a great idea.  The problem, even today, is that the RM name carries the infamy of its past.  People who never bothered to learn the system only saw Companion book after Companion book and thought "Oh God, look at all those core books and rule books." 

However, my vote is for Kulthea and Shadow World  (* Powered by the Rolemaster Remastered gaming engine (tm) )

Just my 2c.
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Offline jdale

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Re: So..
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2018, 08:55:33 AM »
Add me to that minority then.  I think it's a great idea.  The problem, even today, is that the RM name carries the infamy of its past.  People who never bothered to learn the system only saw Companion book after Companion book and thought "Oh God, look at all those core books and rule books." 

Rolemaster has relatively few books compared to most systems. I've run into more of an attitude that there is not enough support material for RMU (just core books and that's it?) than the idea that there was too much support material to go through.
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Offline Hurin

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Re: So..
« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2018, 10:25:59 AM »
I guess i am one of the ?majority? that likes RM generic, because i want to be able to mix fantasy with sci fi campaigns, as for example when my Spacemaster group goes to low tech worlds. I also want backwards compatibility, and have no interest in a setting like Cyradon.

One exception might be the Darkspace universe, but i will admit that setting RMU in Darkspace would be insane.
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Offline Peter R

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Re: So..
« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2018, 10:28:03 AM »
Add me to that minority then.  I think it's a great idea.  The problem, even today, is that the RM name carries the infamy of its past.  People who never bothered to learn the system only saw Companion book after Companion book and thought "Oh God, look at all those core books and rule books." 

Rolemaster has relatively few books compared to most systems. I've run into more of an attitude that there is not enough support material for RMU (just core books and that's it?) than the idea that there was too much support material to go through.

Unfortunately it is not the reality that is the problem. It is the fact that people still associate Rolemaster with bloat. The fact that all of RM2 in totality is a positive minnow compared to Pathfinder will never stop a miserable git complaining.

There is a terrible conundrum in that the established community won't buy in because there are only 4 core books and the public at large are unlikely to buy in if you have to buy 4 core books.
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Offline Grinnen Baeritt

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Re: So..
« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2018, 10:33:35 AM »
Add me to that minority then.  I think it's a great idea.  The problem, even today, is that the RM name carries the infamy of its past.  People who never bothered to learn the system only saw Companion book after Companion book and thought "Oh God, look at all those core books and rule books." 

Rolemaster has relatively few books compared to most systems. I've run into more of an attitude that there is not enough support material for RMU (just core books and that's it?) than the idea that there was too much support material to go through.

Too True... Pathfinder *cough* *ahem*... 

As for a perceived lack of support material for RMU, that really isn't that surprising as there seems to be a major elephant in the room i.e. the definitive publishing of the core rules. I can't imagine anyone putting the work in to produce specific supplements/adventures when the project has yet to be completed.. at least to the publishers satisfaction... and appears still to be throwing up the occasional spanner in play-testing.

I've been working on something that straddles the various incarnations of RM... which makes it useable by people that would prefer sticking to RM2, RMSS.. RMU or even (shhhh..) Merp.