Topic: How do you kill a dragon?

[DangerMan]

How is it done? How do you kill a great drake?

It could be done with a great deal of luck (lucky critical) or by sheer numbers (raising an army). But suppose you want to plan on killing a dragon, doesnt want to rely on luck alone, and cannot raise an army - then what? What sort of group, at what level, employing what sort of tactics would it take?

The books and legends says something about hitting their weak spots where shells have fallen of, but RM dosent allow for that sort of aiming, does it..?

Considering the defensive and offensive capabilities of these creatures, it seems like a tough endavour all togheter..

[Fenrhyl Wulfson]

A bard and an artifact sword did the trick quite well in one of my games. She managed to go unnoticed while he was destroying her party and at the first occasion she sneaked upon him and burried her sword up to the hilt into the dragon’s flesh.

The fight did last 2 rounds, of a 6-man party the bard was the only one standing. Quite brutal.

[munchy]

We once killed one but it does not count as we were invisible it could not see us per Hobbit inspiration and it was killed by a single stroke into its weak spot as per Hobbit inspiration.

Never again faced one, WAY too dangerous those things.

Wyverns, yes, and they are already quite dangerous enough. Never a dragon!

[Ecthelion]

Personally I think that the real danger of a dragon are not its physical attack capabilities but rather its the spell the beast can cast. A great fire drake in RM has an OB of 150 for its claws and a DB of 75. This, while coupled with AT 20, 600 hits, three attacks per round and the beast being a super-large creature, is quite impressive, but we had some fighter characters who had such OB and higher DB values even at 10th level. Therefore a group of 3-5 such fighters could deal with such a beast. The problem for us always was that, for a 60th level drake, it was very easy to simply cast a Word of Sleep, Lord Sleep, Suggestion, Master of Kind or the like and put the characters to sleep or dominate them. Unless your group finds a means to protect against such spells it is IMO madness to even try to battle such a beast.

[providence13]

How do you kill a great drake?
I would just build around it.

In RM, all the planning and tactics in the world might not be enough.
Then again, I remember a weak hobbit thief with a shortbow and magic arrow hitting a dragon with a "00" 1st round..   

[DangerMan]

The problem for us always was that, for a 60th level drake, it was very easy to simply cast a Word of Sleep, Lord Sleep, Suggestion, Master of Kind or the like and put the characters to sleep or dominate them. Unless your group finds a means to protect against such spells it is IMO madness to even try to battle such a beast.

Right! Spirit Matsery is a great spell list! But how othe hell do you protect your self from a 60th leve spell caster?

Im not planning on slaying a dragon my selfe, btw. Im GMing a campaign where dragons play a part in the plot, and Im trying to figure out what part..

[Ecthelion]

Right! Spirit Matsery is a great spell list! But how othe hell do you protect your self from a 60th leve spell caster?

I have no clue, and that's why none of our groups ever dared battling a great drake  .

[ob1knorrb]

Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure...   

[markc]

Artifacts! and prayers.
MDC

[providence13]

Im not planning on slaying a dragon my selfe, btw. Im GMing a campaign where dragons play a part in the plot, and Im trying to figure out what  part..

Oh... do tell more..
1) Are they political powerhouses, using kingdoms like game pieces and the world as their Risk board?

2) Do they not give a dragon crap about politics but want to make sure a particular set of Spell Lists died out a long time ago (like they were supposed to) when they killed all those who could cast them?

3) Are they in hiding, quietly training soldiers, awaiting the arrival of the "others"? This time, with so many races on one world, the dragons might defeat the "others".

4) Do they invest in real estate and go to sleep for a few hundred years until property values go up?

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Just go and tell it straight that you intend to kill it. The ridiculousness of such a feat should be enough to have it die laughing.

[DangerMan]

Im not planning on slaying a dragon my selfe, btw. Im GMing a campaign where dragons play a part in the plot, and Im trying to figure out what  part..

Oh... do tell more..
1) Are they political powerhouses, using kingdoms like game pieces and the world as their Risk board?

2) Do they not give a dragon crap about politics but want to make sure a particular set of Spell Lists died out a long time ago (like they were supposed to) when they killed all those who could cast them?

3) Are they in hiding, quietly training soldiers, awaiting the arrival of the "others"? This time, with so many races on one world, the dragons might defeat the "others".

4) Do they invest in real estate and go to sleep for a few hundred years until property values go up?

Im not gonna tell too much, as I know at least one of the players might read this. But one of your points gave me a great idea, Providence! Thank you - have an idea point!

I also like 4) hihihihi

Sincerly
DM

[kevinmccollum]

Right! Spirit Matsery is a great spell list! But how othe hell do you protect your self from a 60th leve spell caster?

In RM2, I would say use Dwarves to attack it. In RM2, the dwarven +40 vs. essence also acted as a penalty to the base attack roll. That makes it tough for even a great drake to land a spell on a high level dwarven character. they seem to have removed that from RMSS/RMFRP though so I would say don't even try.

[Ecthelion]

In RM2, the dwarven +40 vs. essence also acted as a penalty to the base attack roll. That makes it tough for even a great drake to land a spell on a high level dwarven character. they seem to have removed that from RMSS/RMFRP though so I would say don't even try.

Could you give a reference to this RR bonus also acting as a penalty to the base attack roll? IMO this is at least not in the cure rules and only, if it is not a house rule, an optional rule from one of the companions.

[Arioch]

My players killed some Mature great drake, but never an Old one. Their plans usually involved some way to prevent the dragon from flying above them and to keep it in melee, but otherwise they was pretty straightforward.

[kevinmccollum]

Could you give a reference to this RR bonus also acting as a penalty to the base attack roll? IMO this is at least not in the cure rules and only, if it is not a house rule, an optional rule from one of the companions

Referring to the old Spell Law, Stock #1200 (it was also in the red covered book) Table 10.2 Base Spell Roll Modifications. The fourth item down is Race with +/- variable and under notes E.G. demons, dwarves, etc.

[Ecthelion]

Thanks for the reference. Subtracting the full RR bonus is a possible interpretation of this note, but IMHO it is quite far-fetched to apply the full bonus. Probably this item does no longer appear in the newer RMSS/RMFRP since it is a bit misleading.

[Skaran]

Carefully.
I have a picture on a wall showing an army facing a great drake. The dragon is winning.

Proper dragons should be about the most dangerous opponent you could face. They are highly intelligent with dangerous natural weaponry and spell casters as well.

You really need a bane weapon. Sadly in my gameworld creatures can sense the presence of their bane. Dragons in my world also have "True Sight" so can see through illusions, invisibility etc.

If you do manage to slay one that has been menacing a nation expect to be given titles, lands etc.

Oh yes did I mention that often there will be a mature dragon and some youngsters being protected. Don't anoy mother!

[mibsweden]

Then again, I remember a weak hobbit thief with a shortbow and magic arrow hitting a dragon with a "00" 1st round..   

Aahh that is Rolemaster - it is beauuutiful

[mibsweden]

Could you give a reference to this RR bonus also acting as a penalty to the base attack roll? IMO this is at least not in the cure rules and only, if it is not a house rule, an optional rule from one of the companions

Referring to the old Spell Law, Stock #1200 (it was also in the red covered book) Table 10.2 Base Spell Roll Modifications. The fourth item down is Race with +/- variable and under notes E.G. demons, dwarves, etc.

I think some of the tables are meant to be used for multiple game systems. After all, Arms Law started out as a supplement to AD&D right? I interpret the modifications under 10.2 to be taken as general guidelines for adapting other game systems to RM Spell Law.