Topic: Detect Enemies for free!

[providence13]

*Special Note under Communion Paladin Base List
2)The GM should define enemy as appropriate to his world.
For most worlds, the term enemy will mean those that are
actively opposed to the religion or deity.

In the spell description for Detect Enemies, "enemies" is in quotes. IMHO, this denotes a special circumstance with the definition of this word. The Special Notes then tell you what it means.

A conflict arrises from the Inspiring Ways Base List.
Special Notes
1) Voice and Words spells will only work on non-enemies
;ie. those not actively hostile to the caster. As this spell description isn't in quotes, I believe that this use of the word enemies is what most people think of the term. "Trying to do harm".. kinda thing and not directly opposed to the religion as in Communion. But that's just my take on it.

I'm seriously considering that Detect Enemies not even require PP!
I'd think that a Paladin should be able to detect Demons and Undead in a 50 ft radius, automatically. They are freaking Paladins!!
Then if they want to add to the radius, they spend the PP, just like we do now*. This would also alert the Demon/Undead to their presence, as well. So, the first radius is free and "quiet", but adding to it makes it more "noisy". But I'm still on the fence about that one.

(* One of our house rules... You don't get a per level increase is spells for free. You get the initial and then have to "buy up" each one after that for 1 PP each. Spell states 50'/lvl. You get that when you cast, but you spend 1PP/ additional 50' up to your max for your lvl. No other class gets a per lvl increase for free. )

Other than the House Rule, is this too powerful. Or maybe going back to class/Profession abilities?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

1) In the Communion list, the word "enemies" is in quotes within the spell description itself, not within the note below the spell list where it states that the GM determines who is an enemy for the religion.

2) In the Inspirations list, the word "enemies" is not used within the list at all. And just like in the notes from the other spell list, it is not used in quotes.

The official interpretation would be that the "enemies" mentioned in the notes of both lists would be the same.


Okay, first you say something about making "Detect Enemies" be free, but then you start specifying demons/undead.

Demons and undead won't automatically be the enemies of every religion in a fantasy setting -- but that does bring up an interesting idea/alternative.

The idea behind the "enemies" is that the GM decides who are the enemies. Not only can these be things like undead and demons, but also worshipers of an opposing deity as well.

If you want to allow Paladins detect enemies for free (which is somewhat like how Mentalism users can use Presence for free), then go ahead, but I would suggest not giving them the spell for free.

Make the ability be more generic. The spell gives general direction and distance, so have the ability just be "within the radius", without direction or distance. Also, I would limit the ability to such things as demons or undead (or elementals, or devas, or whatever supernatural enemies the Paladin has), and not to mundane enemies (i.e. those from other religions).

Then the Paladin can use the spell to get specific locations, and/or to find those who are not of a supernatural nature.

This way, the spell still retains its utility, AND you give the Paladin an ability that fits your conception of him...

[markc]

Another way to limit the ability to detect enemies if it is for free is to not give a location. Just a yes or no somewhere in the radius.
MDC

[providence13]

The Demons/Undead was just a standard trope and does fit in my game; an example really.

This particular Paladin is a Halfling (rare, but not impossible) and worships a Halfling god of Defense and Protection (of other Halflings, really.)
Undead and Demons are there because of a "Plague" that nearly decimated their community ~100 years ago. This was an undead outbreak that involved Demons, but most respectful 'Folk don't discuss such matters.
These critters are enemies of the religion.

If I make the 1st lvl spell require no PP (yes, like some Mentalism spells), it isn't a Profession bonus because other Channelers could pick it up.

[providence13]

Then the Paladin can use the spell to get specific locations, and/or to find those who are not of a supernatural nature.

Wait a minute, Rasyr...
The spell is meant to only work against those that directly oppose the faith/religion/deity and not the Paladin as an individual, right?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Wait a minute, Rasyr...
The spell is meant to only work against those that directly oppose the faith/religion/deity and not the Paladin as an individual, right?

Correct, the spell is meant to work against ONLY those designated by the GM as enemies of the religion. Whether they are of a supernatural nature or not.

For example, in Shadow World, Reann is the God of Dreams and I would also include anything "night" related as well. And then you have the evil god Scalu (god of Night & Dreams).

For a Paladin of Reann, his enemies would likely be something along the lines of "Unlife (which includes undead), demons, and priests of Scalu"

So, my suggestion was to have the innate ability only work for supernatural foes (and not give direction or distance). So, a Paladin could freely detect if a creature of the Unlife, a zombie, or a demon (etc.) was within 50', but not if a Sorcerer (who made a pact with the Unlife) or a priest of Scalu was within range.

He would need the spell to detect the Sorcerer (and/or a priest of Scalu), and/or to determine the direction and/or distance.

His other spells that work (or do not work) against "enemies" would affect the entire list regardless of whether or not the Paladin actually "detected" them.

I hope that makes a bit more sense...

[providence13]

Right on.
Gotcha.
That's the way I read it too and am going to play it!
This is one of those "that's the way we've always played it and now you're changing everything"... "I read it as people who wish me harm" yadda, yadda..

It's not my fault that someone allowed this way back when....