Author Topic: Talent Law Question/Ruling Help  (Read 2255 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DavidKlecker

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 700
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Everything is coming up Milhouse!
Talent Law Question/Ruling Help
« on: November 02, 2009, 07:27:49 AM »
I have a player interesting in having the following talents and following flaws. He provided a back story and everything. My problem is this, I don't like the idea of having 8 talents and 5 flaws. I like it better when the character selects around 3 to 4 from each. Does anyone find anything wrong with allowing this? Thanks!

BACKGROUND STORY with requested talents and flaws:
Raised in the House of Elrond, Bard was a gifted bard. Skilled in many of the talents that the elven-folk love, he excelled in particular at singing, dancing, and performing on a lute. Singing was his passion, and nothing gave him greater pleasure than accompanying a song with a stunning and captivating musical composition. Word of his talents spread though the region, including to the house of Elrond himself, where he performed several private concerts.

One fateful day, after being hired by kingdom of men, Bard was traveling along the main road, composing a new sonnet as he walked paying little attention to his surroundings. The orcs were upon him before he could react. The particular party had interest in raiding the forest and finding the Last Homely House. The orcs, of course, knew who this particular traveler was (though how is unclear but certainly fiendish), and had already made plans for him. After days of torture. They gave him one chance only: tell what the path is into the forest past any guards directly to Rivendell, or have his tongue cut out. The fear was too much for him, and he described a way in, though not quite as "safe" as the orcs had hope for. For his trouble, the orcs cut his tongue out anyways.

He was released by the orcs out of some twisted sense of humor, a twisted shell of his former self. The tortures he endured left his skin unable to handle wearing his old metal armor for any length of time. He painfully made his way back to his home country, nearly naked and on the verge of death. Upon arrival he heard news of the orcs raid on Rivendell. Several defender elves where slain in the massive battle as the elves were unprepared for the scope and size of the orcish raiding force. Elrond received him into his house, and taking pity on him claimed him as one of his own. While the damage to his body was irreversible, Elrond bestowed upon him a gift of a Lute, the could play more sweetly than any of its bretheren. To make up for the loss of his vocal abilities, he has taken it upon himself to improve himself ways that will assist him upon his new path. He refuses to be caught again, and strives to be exceptionally quick, nimble, and agile. He has studied methods of communication with those who can talk and thus has developed some empathicesque abilities. More than anything though, he wishes to slay orcs. Though it is no longer possible to find the orcs that did this to him, he will slay any he comes across at any cost.

However, he does have a dark secret. It is common knowledge that the elves will not reveal the way through Rivendell to any of their foes. To do so is treasonous and will result in the death of the vile traitor. Bard, while succumbing to the torture, is now guilty of treason to the House of Elrond. This is his secret alone, but should it ever come out, all elves will be his enemy and attempt to slay him on sight. The guilt of this occasionally causes his subconscious to come forward and betray him. When a spell fumbles, he finds that he's targeted an ally instead.

FLAWS:
Mute - 25 -- Can't speak or sing.
Tender Skin - 10 -- Can't wear metal armor. Causes -10 to all action for d10 hours after removed.
Trauma (minor) - 5 -- Triggered by an orc licking a blade. Causes immobilization for d10 minutes. A crit negates early.
Secret (greater) - 15 -- Traitor to the house of Elrond. Elves will kill on sight if secret ever discovered.
Friendslayer - 10 -- When a spell fumbles, instead of rolling on the spell fumble table attack an ally instead (normal RR's).GM randomly determines who it affects. If no allys near, spell fails as normal.
RivalNPC/Vow (major) - 10 -- MODIFIED CUSTOM - Must attack and kill all orcs encountered. Planning can be done, but the attempt must be made. Once started, he will fight until either he or the orcs are dead. A successful Self Discipline check at -25 will allow him to make mental note of the location and come back at a future time. If the mission is suicide (ie, 100 orcs inside a fortress or something) the check is made at +25 (though the intent MUST be there to return as soon as possible and viable, ie with help.)

TALENTS:
Lightning Strike - 10 -- +5 to initiative rolls
Combat Reflexes - 10 -- +5 bonus to OB, DB, and Initiative
Ear for Music - 7 -- +25 to Play Instrument maneuvers
Peripheral Vision - 7 -- Foe bonus reduced to +5 for flank, and +15 for rear.
Battle Reflexes - 7 -- Make an extra Initiative Roll, then pick which to use
Instinctive Defense - 15 -- +20 to DB if aware of attack, +10 if not aware.
Aura - 7 -- Receive 1 additional PP per rank in PP Development
Acrobat - 7 -- +15 to Acrobatic*Gymnastics category, and +25 to one Special Attack that doesn't use a weapon.

Total Flaw points: 75
Total Talent points: 74 (racial points were not used)
All Background Options allocated to instrument (Lute).

You can see that all of the talents are based around going first in combat, not getting hit, and being able to cast my spells. All of the flaws relate to the background story, and will make for an interesting character to play and to have in the party, without getting too complicated or unbalanced. Nothing "uber" was chosen.


Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

  • Inactive
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Talent Law Question/Ruling Help
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2009, 09:01:34 AM »
First of all - the Secret -- He gets captured, tortured, and his tongue is cut out, and then he is released, and during this time the elves are attacked. Any elf with half a brain is going to be able to make the connection that they tortured the information from him. I also think that the elves would take the torture into consideration, as it isn't as if he betrayed them willingly.

Now, he may have a lot of personal shame over it, but I wouldn't consider it to be as bad as his back story tries to make it be.

As for the talents - when GMing RMSS/FRP, I always followed one main rule, and that was that nobody was ever allowed more than one talent that affected a single aspect of the character.

Meaning that if the character had 1 talent that gave a bonus to initiative, he could not take a second one that does the same. If has has a talent that gives a bonus to DB, he cannot have a second one that gives a bonus to DB.

Now, the talent that gives an extra init roll, that is different from a bonus to init, so that one I would (and have) allowed with one that gives a bonus to init.

In short, if he has Combat Reflexes, he should not (IMO) also have Lightning Strike and Instinctive Defense (the Acrobat talent is an iffy one as well, though, you could rule that he + to OB from Combat Reflexes does not apply to that Special Attack).

He is correct in saying that "nothing uber" was chosen. However, the combination of some of the talents he selected does create "uber" when they are used together.

As for the flaws, none of them really limit the character in any manner. He is a Mentalism user, so the loss of his voice has no impact there.

Being a semi-spell user, he would most likely go with leather armor anyways, so no impact there (question -- if he HAD metal armor, is this reflected in his character sheet - did he at least buy ranks for it - if the answer is no, then it is definitely a worthless flaw).

Trauma - how many times are orcs going to be licking their blades in battle? Chances are little to none, as that is more of a "torture" type activity, so it will have little to no impact.

Secret -- How are the elves going to learn this secret? If they didn't already know, the only ones who can tell them are the character (who cannot talk, even in his sleep), and the orcs (who, if they survived, are unlikely to ever tell the elves). Another low to no impact flaw.

Friendslayer -- Heh! This flaw HELPS the player more often than it will hinder him. "Oops, sorry, didn't mean to hit you with that, it is one of my flaws.." The net affect is that fumbles affect the character less often, so he has less chance of receiving a nasty result.

RivalNPC/Vow??? It boils down to - "I want to kill all orcs, but only if it won't kill me" This is a standard adventurer outlook, not a flaw of any sort. And there is no sort of rival in there anywhere. The Orcs are not rivals. The way he has it written is that it is almost compulsion, UNLESS he decides the odds aren't in his favor, then he get gets to do what he likes, so long as he promises himself to come back later to deal with it. Again, this is not a flaw, this is standard PC behavior in most cases... hehe

Flaws such as Bad Temper, Bloodlust, Fearlessness, Impulsive, Intolerance (Lesser), Minor Fear (Lesser), Trauma (triggered by just the sight of Orcs), and Sadist -- all focused on Orcs (say, half normal point values in some cases for limiting what the Flaw is against) would likely be much more appropriate than the majority of the flaws he selected.

If the flaw does not impede him in some manner, then it isn't truly a flaw....

I once had a character that had both a Fear of Magic and Intolerance (against magic), and his standard reaction when confronted with magic was to attack. Being the target of a spell would put him into a berserker rage to kill the caster. And he often had Bad Temper (though that was NOT one of his flaws) against any magic user regardless of who they were. The campaign started with him and others in prison and being forced to work with each other on a special mission to earn their freedom. One of the others was a mage. We almost didn't make it out of that initial meeting (my character was extremely nasty to the magic users in the group, and they were ready to kill him then and there).

The point is that the character's experiences should have left him with a lot of fear and anger, which could and likely would make him act impulsively and violently against any and all orcs (the focus of both the fear and the anger)


Offline Thom @ ICE

  • Aurigas Staff
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,810
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Thom@ironcrown.com
Re: Talent Law Question/Ruling Help
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2009, 11:00:41 AM »
I would have to agree with Rasyr on this. The flaws seem to be of very little impact and some of them (specifically friendslayer) don't seem to have much to do with the back story. I wasn't even looking at things from the mechanic side, and that even emphasizes it more.

For the talents... Looks to me like a pile on of lower value to create the uber without actually taking uber itself. I wouldn't even allow the second init roll talent, but I guess Rasyr's just being nice. :)

I found it interesting that his key artistic talent seems to be the lute - one which is completely not impacted by any of the flaws.  If he was a great lute player (and the orcs knew that) then one of their first tortures would be cut off his fingers one by one....
Email -    Thom@ironcrown.com

Offline DavidKlecker

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 700
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Everything is coming up Milhouse!
Re: Talent Law Question/Ruling Help
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2009, 01:06:25 PM »
Well his Bard cannot cast without either playing his instrument or performing with his body in some fashion which for me means he cannot be in a melee combat AND cast spells at the same time. You can't play the guitar or mime while you are fighting with a sword. This is impossible. So the idea he has to do one or the other makes Mute as a flaw good enough for me. However I'm hoping he is not expecting he can do both at the same time. That would be a bad assumption. Note: However casting and fighting are two different beasts anyways, so not being able to do both at the same time doesn't really make much sense either. In the end, I think I will still allow it, but it's not 25 points, but 15 points maybe even 10.


I agree with just about everything else though and I thank you a lot for helping me see this. I actually restrict people to 3 talents and 3 flaws but I like the idea of just focusing on one character trait per talent better and making sure the flaw is something that will effect you, period, not a casual effect that might not come up most of the time.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 01:16:22 PM by Monk »

Offline markc

  • Elder Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,697
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Talent Law Question/Ruling Help
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2009, 01:06:50 PM »
 I have to agree with the above two posters but also I would compare it to the other PC's in the group to see if it is unbalanced.
 I also try and see if the flaw is actually a flaw to the PC. If it is not then I do not give points for it.

MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline DavidKlecker

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 700
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Everything is coming up Milhouse!
Re: Talent Law Question/Ruling Help
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2009, 01:19:22 PM »
I have an PC who is addicted to an illegal drug. This will force him to get it through the underground who might force him to do things contrary to his alignment. To me, that's quite the flaw. I can have him setup to steal or betray a certain famous person to get a drug his body absolutely needs. He's a traitor in the making.

Nothing in the presented flaws in this thread have this kind of lethality to them. In my mind except for Mute and a rewritten Trauma, the rest are zero point flaws as Rasyr points out.

Online pastaav

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,620
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • Swedish gaming club
Re: Talent Law Question/Ruling Help
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2009, 02:03:05 PM »
Personally I don't get the game merit of being mute. What is he supposed to do at the game table when the other players are talking? Send notes? Sounds boring to me.

In general I think the idea to take flaws to buy talents is dubious at best. The player never takes flaws that impact the character on a scale even remotely close to what the talent gives. I say that taking flaws should be suggested for roleplaying benefit and players be awarded story benefits if they act out the flaw so that it limit them.
/Pa Staav

Offline markc

  • Elder Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,697
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Talent Law Question/Ruling Help
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2009, 02:23:27 PM »
 Or how about the GM offer flaws to the player based on some of the possible flaws they pick?

MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.