Topic: Navigator questions

[Kurgath]

So you would think after 10+ years of GMing Shadow World I would have a good grasp on things....

......well today I realised I might have been ruling Navigators all wrong.

I realised while reading the Shadowstone Chronicles through again that all the Jumps seemed to be from obelisk to obelisk - but I had always assumed that you could kind of Jump to pretty much anywhere.

So that caused me to check out the Navigator risks more thoroughly and now I see why obelisk to obelisk is the most likely option, they are basically just using teleports albeit with some additional ability to make them safe - I had always just assumed that they were pretty much 'risk free' and 'extremely long ranged'.

Presumably though most experienced Navigators would have a fair few other locations well known also. I can imagine trainee Navigators travelling around to build-up their portfolio of safe locations. But what happens when you place your hand on an obelisk and confidently say "i require a Navigator" and the one who arrives can't provide what you are looking for?  Does he blush, excuse himself, leave and send a colleague back???

And then the next item - range.

Since the lists restrict their 'service' Jumps to 10 miles/level then although this is as good as a magician it isn't exactly the "extremely long range" that I had assumed.

Take an example from Shadowstone - Sulfean Jumps Kalen & co from Nomikos to Rapata. This is about 1000 miles.....Sulfean would need to be 100th level to do this! But according to SWMA4 he is 35th, so does that mean he would have had to take them in 3 Jumps?  Or more likely a fair few more than that considering he would have to zig-zag his way up there going from safe spot to safe spot?  (e.g. obelisk to obelisk)

I know I am taking what is written quite literally but I just wanted to share my observatons because I was a bit shocked and surprised today!

Comments???

[Lomli]

I always assumed a jump was a culmination of multiple spells off of the Mass Transport, Path Mastery and Flow Mastery spell lists. The compass allowed the wearer to better manipulate the flows and require massive amounts of training.

[fac]

Usually when you ask for a navigator, the one that comes and negotiates wit you is not the same that comes to make the transport.

Also the one that makes the transport could have the right spell cast (at the right level to make only 1 jump) in a rune paper or stored in the compass, all of this done by a Master Navigator.

[Kurgath]

Good ideas fac.

So the first person they could meet would be the travel planner, who then decides whether they need to send a taxi or a corporate jet!   

I'm keen to iron-out a concensus on another of my issues - do you rule that Jumps are typically only from obelisk to obelisk or do you allow it to be more flexible?

e.g. 1: Obelisk to some other location
e.g. 2: Personal summoning stone to an obelisk

Plus variations on that theme.....

Personally I'm starting to veer towards Obelisk to Obelisk, or very major landmarks, or my example 2 above. Otherwise people could say "drop me off as close to Gryphon College as you can please - and don't deny you know where that is because I know you have taken people there before!"

[fac]

In my game obelisks are following the flows and help to fix the flows as if they were ley lines. I think that jumping from everywhere to an obelisk is 100% safe, so Navigators always prefer to jumb between obelisks because is risk free, sometimes they have to do the jum to a wild area where there are no obelisks (e.g. Khum Khaan), it's not a problem but it's not their favourite job.

The same difference between landing in Charles de Gaulle or in a small island in the Caribbean. 

[Witchking20k]

Although I read the Shadow Stone Chronicles, I don't use them as Canon material.  Unfortunately for me, and probably many others, I started running in SW 15+ years ago on limited material.  So, when Navigators & Loremasters became involved....it was very much a whimsical affair.  I didn't know much about the different guilds etc.  So I just made it stinkin expensive and the Navigators kinda snotty....players are cheap, so they never bothered after that.....particularly when we had some characters that "knew everything "...do you know how to we get to ________?"  Says Dirhn the mage to Collin the Ranger..."Of course I do!  I've been a guide in Jaiman for years, and to better company than you!"  (meanwhile a frantic set of Region Lore & geography rolls are beig made with all the players laughiing)

Good times

[Vince]

There is also items that work as easy-to-transport obelisks, like special Coins and mini-obelisks.

I think i had read something about that in SwStone Chrn. and in the Great Campaign  (something in Tanara i believe).

Anyway normally you don't jump with a navigator, he travels with you. He helps the travel to be faster and more secure, but usually only Jump to defend the passengers, and then continue his path. So normally they don't need to do big jumps. OTOH i will allow the navigator to increase their range if i need to.

[vroomfogle]

This brings up an interesting question.   How do you all (or do you) encourage PC's to use Navigators?   Sure there's always the possibility of barriers in which case you would probably need one but those would be rare cases.   Does the Navigator speed up travel somehow?   Otherwise once you have some experienced characters there would be little reason to ever hire a Navigator.

I've found that PC's rarely would ever hire a Navigator, *unless* it's for a Jump.   However the spirit of SW is that places are isolated and travel is dangerous so Navigators just as guides should be more common.

[Vince]

We asume that is pretty hard to advance without a guide once you are outside major roads. At least we asume that the group will advance less miles per day without a guide. Also navigators increase speed more than a normal guide, putting wind to the sails.

Our groups doesn't ask for Navigators normally because it's too expensive, and they want to fight whatever menace they encounter. But sometimes, when they know they are followed by someone more dangerous that them, they use the Navigators as a Bodyguard safe more than a guide.

[Nejira]

I always assumed that Navigators were the only ones with access to the spell lists. Kinda like a guild monopoly.

[Witchking20k]

Me too.  Its like owning IP.  The spell list is where the money making is...

[thrud]

Like everything else relating to spells. You need a teacher of some sort, be that a book or a real person.
I would expect Guilds like Navigators to guard their occupational secrets fairly well.

Otoh it would be interesting if a mage managed to learn a list and started teaching it to the public. 

[egdcltd]

Otoh it would be interesting if a mage managed to learn a list and started teaching it to the public. 

He'd probably suffer an "unfortunate accident" due to "use of inadequately understood dangerous spells" that "should only be used by qualified people."

[Witchking20k]

Such spells often conjure knives in the dark

[thrud]

Just imagine it...
10 secret students who in their turn enroll 10 secret students of their own and so on.
Anarchy will follow... *evil laughter*

[egdcltd]

Just imagine it...
10 secret students who in their turn enroll 10 secret students of their own and so on.
Anarchy will follow... *evil laughter*

Thus inventing the Kulthean version of Amway.

[Vince]

Loremaster had similar spells. Anyway i believe the compass is the distintictive tool to be able to do what they do.

[TomOBedlam]

For us, a Compass is a prereq for teleporting close to, or through, an essence flow. This includes the small flows that are barely noticable unless you are sensitive to magic.

So no compass - no decent range teleport. The compasses are the way they keep their monopoly on teleporting.

We have also allowed navigators to jump to any point they have visited.

IIRC, the material clearly states, as someone mentioned above, that the most common way of using a navigator is to have them travel with you. We found that prices are a bit too high for that to seem reasonable (1 gold/mile?), and we also do not commonly have essence flows that blocks a popular way of travel.

[thrud]

Is there a map anywhere showing the major flows and/or Foci?
Maybe some map showing the Navigator Obelisks? (How many are they? How far appart can they be found?)

And besides a lv 20 navigator can safely teleport 20 people 200 miles (lv40 -> 400 miles with a lot of people) . A few of those jumps and you're there...
So, I guess if you need a serious jump they can arrange it although it'll likely cost you an arm and a leg.

[egdcltd]

There's a map in Jaiman showing Essaence flows there, and another showing obelisk locations. I don't recall seeing anything similar for Emer.