Topic: [RM2] Filling in the blanks

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Something that always bugged me in RM2's many spell lists is how many don't have spell from level 16 to level 20. With the normal acquisition system, you're basically buying one whole spell "pick" for one spell and, even with the individual spell development of RoCoIII, you're paying quite a lot of blank slots (4 consecutive ones!). Now, if the spell lists with such a problem were all very powerful spell lists, one would be anyway willing to pay that useless cost, but that's not the case.

My question is then: was anyone ever annoyed as much as I am with that? Did anyone try to remedy the problem by adding spells to the empty slots? The thing is that I did so for quite a number of spell lists, but there are a lot of them so I wondered whether someone already had done the job for my missing spell lists, so to speak. Additionally, since from what I know, the current RMC incarnation suffers from the same "empty spell slots" problem, mayhap that could start a refection from ICE to revise the SL spell lists with such a problem?

Here are the spell lists for which I already filled in the blanks:

• Spell Law: Moving Ways, Disease, Necromancy, Dark Channels, Body Renewal, Physical Erosion, Soul Destruction, True Sight, True Perception, Mind Visions, Sense Through Others, Past Visions, Future Visions, Mind Subversion, Mind Domination, Mind Erosion, Mind Death, Mind Disease,
• RoCoI: Distractions, Phantom's Face, Phantom Movements, Poison Mastery, Adrenal Focus,
• RoCoII: Mind's Touch, Highriding, Guarded Sight,
• RoCoVII: Earth Forms, Fire Forms, Air Forms, Ice Forms, Light Forms, Dark Forms, Shadowport.

Thanks~

[vroomfogle]

This was one of the big improvements in RMSS - all lists have spells from 1-20, plus many of the random empty slots were also filled.    When we did RMC my personal opinion was that we should have basically used RMSS Spell lists to create the new RMC Spell Law but the edict from ICE was to keep things as close to the original as possible.
   
My suggestion, if it's an option, is to use RMSS Spell Law.   It will give you blanks filled in, better balanced lists in many cases, and 6 lists for each semi (if you want to still only give semis 5 have them pick 5 of the 6).

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

My suggestion, if it's an option, is to use RMSS Spell Law.

Oh, I don't have any problem soever about buying the RMSS/RMFRP spell books, if you can guarantee me all the blanks (or at least, the vast majority of them) in the original RM2 SL are filled.

[Steve_990]

I think the only issue you may find with that OLF is that some of the lists from RM2 just aren't in RMSS... otherwise - it's a great way to "bridge the gaps".

[Moriarty]

More detail is almost always better, but apart from that I never saw the empty spell levels as a problem.
I always assumed that the RM2 authors compensated for the missing spells by making the existing spells relatively more powerful.
I.e. the spell lists are balanced, but individual spells are not.

Ex: The Chaotic spell list Chaos Mastery (Companion III) has only 3 spells from level 1-10.
This is clearly not lack af imagination/inspiration, but because at least one of those spells is insanely powerful.

[Nders]

also many of the lists you mention are semi spell lists and as such they are supposed to be poorer or lacking in certain ways. As for the lists of the elementalist in RoCoVII I chose years ago not to use them as they are so poorly designed and so flawed that they make little sense and are utterly unbalanced.

[markc]

This was one of the big improvements in RMSS - all lists have spells from 1-20, plus many of the random empty slots were also filled.    When we did RMC my personal opinion was that we should have basically used RMSS Spell lists to create the new RMC Spell Law but the edict from ICE was to keep things as close to the original as possible.
   
My suggestion, if it's an option, is to use RMSS Spell Law.   It will give you blanks filled in, better balanced lists in many cases, and 6 lists for each semi (if you want to still only give semis 5 have them pick 5 of the 6).

 A majority spell lists have spells from 1-20 there are still a few that do not, you will find them if you look in some of the RMSS supplements. But in general all most all have spells from 1-20.
MDC 

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

also many of the lists you mention are semi spell lists and as such they are supposed to be poorer or lacking in certain ways.

That would be true if ALL semi were in such a condition, which is far from being the case (not to mention the hybrid or pure who do as well), and with no rationality (such as the semi without blanks being way weaker than the other semis) at all. For instance, in SL, only the Cleric, the Magician and the Mentalist have spells in the 16-19 range, which could be coherent [epitomes of the Realms of Magic?]... if in following RoCos no other profession do as well, which isn't the case. I mean, so the Druid is a variant of the Animist, and it's true that they have similar lists, similar in power. However, the Druid doesn't have these empty slots?

Anyway, I don't look for an explanation about the whys. I presented how I see the situation, and asked for a solution (and one was given to me, in fact). I understand that some GMs are perfectly OK with the situation the way it is; I'm not. That's all.

Vroomfogle, marc, OK, I'll buy the RMSS SL~

[Nders]

this is true Olf and many of the professions presented in the companions have more spells than those from the core spell law professions.

There are some differences between the Rm2 spell law and Rmss spell law though: some classes have been added (Paladin, Magent and Dabbler) and other removed (astrologer, seer and alchemist).
Also the filling in has been done with the thought in mind that the spells should be well worth learning and as such they are somewhat more powerful than what we know from the original spell law.
The sorcerer for example has mass spells in Rmss which makes him or monsters using flesh destruction very powerful.

They also made some changes to the evil lists thus changing the list dark summons and introducing the list wounding (evil channeling). Both of these changes  are interesting and an overall plus IMO.

I used it for a while to accommodate the same problem you have but chose after a few years to leave it as it was too powerful and ultimately it felt wrong.

[markc]

OLF;
 If you want you can send me some lists and I will check the RMSS Spell Law to see if it has the spells you need.
MDC

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

markc, thanks a lot, but don't worry about that: the RMSS SL pdf is merely $10 (€7 for me), which is 1/3 of my everyday lunch (life is expensive where I work!) so I have no problem soever with buying it to check.

[markc]

markc, thanks a lot, but don't worry about that: the RMSS SL pdf is merely $10 (€7 for me), which is 1/3 of my everyday lunch (life is expensive where I work!) so I have no problem soever with buying it to check.

 No problem.
MDC

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

I felt I should post here and thank the people who suggested me to buy the RMSS SL book. Save for a few lists (two Animist, Necromancy, all Astrologer, Dark Summons, All Seer and Mind Domination), I replaced all the RM2 base spell lists with blanks by their RMSS equivalent.

[Dark Schneider]

Better, use RMSS Spell Law over the RM2 version, it is easier because there is no need to check for every list, and maybe some other spells are revised but is hard to notice as there are so many spells.

[Nders]

Blasphemy!

[Fornitus]

Heretic !!!!!   I know I had a torch around here somewhere.........

[black flag]

Hi to all Folks!
I've just filling the blank for the Life Mastery list (healing Con...) a great miss in RMC....

[Nders]

Well as con returns pretty fast after it is lost there really never was any need but great none the less

[markc]

Well as con returns pretty fast after it is lost there really never was any need but great none the less

I thought Con returns at a rate of 1/month or 1/week? We also always played that you receive a -1 to all action per point of Con lost.
MDC

[Nders]

ok... I don't recall exactly where I have it from, just checked CTI and CT-classic and neither of the express how it is regained. I have a copy of creatures and monsters but not at my own house so It'll take some time before I can check to see if it's in there. The major point about undead and con to me was always that if you went down or lost all your con in a match you would rise as an undead one type lower than the one who drained you.