Topic: [RM2]Your strength is doubled/tripled/quadrupled.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Just a question to fellow GMs: stat-wise, how would you handle spells that increase one's strength and which description is "your strength is doubled/tripled/quadrupled"? I'm not talking about combat purpose (where it's clearly stated that you gain a damage multiplier of x2/3/4 et OB bonus of +10/15/20) but rather for other skills involving the stat, or even a pure stat roll.

For my part, I merely consider a "xxx is doubled" to add +15 to the stat (a bit more than the +10 OB to "compensate" for the absence of the x2 damage), a "xxx is tripled" to add +20 and a "xxx is quadrupled" to add +25.

Opinions?

[Marc R]

An OB bonus of 10/15/20 would translate to a strength bonus increase of 5/7.5/10 since it's St/St/Ag.

It would broaden the scope and benefits of the spells to extend the bonus out to all strength related things. . .workable, as long as you keep it in mind that you're offering a boost.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Errrr, as tagged, it's for RM2, which uses the average of stat bonuses, not the sum.

[markc]

 I do not know the item or spell that doubles, triples or quadrupedals the stat, but IMO it would sort of depend on the stat value as if you go beyond 100 the scale is not linear. So I might say doubles raises the stat to 90 or +1 if 100 or over 100, triples raises it to 95 or if 100 or over +2 and if x4 then raises the stat to 100 or +3.

 I also think this question has been asked before so I might do a search and see what you find.
MDC  

I just remembered that in RoCo 1 they have extra abilities for high stats so you might want to see what value a stat has to be to provide a x2, x3 and ,4 and just give them that stat for the duration of the spell or when using the item.

 Also if it is a spell or item it might only apply to specific situations and not raise the stat in general. But that should be defined by the spell or item itself. If not then it is a GM call IMO.
MDC

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Monk base list, Body Reins, the miscellaneous Strength spells.
A search brought this thread, with LordMiller's conclusion of:

I suspect, the flaws in the system lay not with how mechanics work, but poor quality control in the editing process.

Like allowing a "strength" spell that "Doubles the Strength Bonus", ignoring the fact that Strength bonus can be negative, so an x2 buff spell makes you weaker.

The mod is still "applied to the bonus" which is indeed the "absolute and linear" mechanic in current RM, but whomever edited that spell fell asleep at the wheel, it should read "+X to Strength bonus" with X being any number that must be positive, like 5, or 10, or 1/Level.

...and this thread, that rather concludes that "Caster's STRENGTH is doubled" is an awkward wording.

Their conclusion matched mine, so I guess it's how most GMs handle this spell.

[Cormac Doyle]

In RMC - the wording of any spell that previously stated "stat is doubled" was changed to avoid this confusion.

Right at the moment, I can't remember exactly what I changed it to, but it was a straight stat bonus

(Doubled = +10, I think)

[Witchking20k]

So on a realted topic.  How much can one lift?  If these bonuses are doubling, doesn't that mean that the effect of the strenght doubles?

[Dark Schneider]

IMO it should be used changing the x(damage-1) for +10 bonus, so x2 = +10, x3 = +20, x4 = +30.

Examples:

notation spell/skill description: bonus (xdamage) = bonus for not combat

+10 (x2) = +20
+15 (x3) = +35
+20 (x4) = +50

I don't remember spells descriptions so are generic examples.

[markc]

 IMO just because your ST doubles it does not mean you can life x2 the weight you could life before. IMO it would be some fraction of that.
 Also even if you had the ST there can be problems with body structure and lifting heavy weights. Right now the name of the series escapes me but in it they have magical brands that take a persons St, Dex, Stam, Vitality, It etc and gives them to another. The giver or those forced to give are then looked after by others as they essentially lose all or almost all of the trait they gave away. The person who gained the trait has to gain them with balance in mind. I think they provided examples of a person gaining loads of ST and bending down to lift a wight and ripping there arms off or a person losing a St trait while carrying a very heavy load and falling and not being able to get back up.

MDC

[Marc R]

Errrr, as tagged, it's for RM2, which uses the average of stat bonuses, not the sum.

nerp. . .oops.

OK, to back calc the str bonus it's 150% of the OB bonus.

So 10/15/20 OB bonus translates to +15/+22.5/+30 strength bonus

i.e. 30 st bonus = (+30+30+0)/3=+20

Sorry about that.


Same logic though, in terms of your offering a boost/bennie into play.

[mibsweden]

Nevermind, wrong post

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Just a question to fellow GMs: stat-wise, how would you handle spells that increase one's strength and which description is "your strength is doubled/tripled/quadrupled"? I'm not talking about combat purpose (where it's clearly stated that you gain a damage multiplier of x2/3/4 et OB bonus of +10/15/20) but rather for other skills involving the stat, or even a pure stat roll.

Just did a check via Spell Laws (RM2, RMSS, & RMC) - specifically in the Monk's Body Reins spell list (since that is the only core spell list that contains the Strength spells) to see how each version words the spell.

The "doubles caster's strength" only appears in the RM2 version of Spell Law, and given the actual functions of the spell, I would say that it is basically nothing more than flavor text within the spell's description. Meant to evoke a visual image, not be an actual description of how the spell works.

RMSS just says that it doubles hits dealt and gives the bonus to OB.

RMC says "increases effective strength" and then goes on to the spell's actual effects.

Looking at all three versions carefully, and considering the actual effects of the spell (and its various versions at higher levels), I would say:

[orule=Official Ruling on Strength Spells]
The actual effect of the spell is that it generates a magical field around the caster that aids in any maneuver that utilizes Strength. In combat, this results in an increase in the amount of hits dealt on the attack tables (this excludes hits dealt from the critical tables) and a flat bonus to any action or maneuver that utilizes Strength.

Thus, the lowest version of the spell which gives a +10 to OB would also apply a +10 to any other skills or maneuver rolls that utilize strength.
[/orule]

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

\o/
Thanks, Rasyr.

[Nders]

We have always multiplied the stat total bonus. This means that a monk with a strength total of 35 would recieve a total of 70 for the purpose of lifting things or strength skills. This has never posed a problem When applying a bonus of +10 try remembering the many spells from the closed mentalism list Mind mastery tha give stat bonuses to skills. The range is +50 - +100 if I remember corectly and the ones that give + 50 are just about the same levelas strength I (