Author Topic: New players/GM question about character creation  (Read 2546 times)

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Offline voodoo8476

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New players/GM question about character creation
« on: May 04, 2009, 12:42:12 AM »
Ok, So we are about to start out first RM game. After a character creation and quick combat session we have some rules interpretation questions.
Most things went well and we got a good feel for the game, but have yet to understand if we are under or over powered in skills ect.
The biggest questions comes with PC generation.
During creation you have Adolescent, hobby and then TP/DP skills to develop.
1. Hobby ranks are limited by the DP values but are they limited by ranks available?
2. If say you are limited to 3 ranks for a specific skill at 1st lvl can you spend 3 hobby ranks and then take a training package that gives you ranks in that skill? or more so can you also then spend DP to increase that skill again? resulting in 6 or even more ranks in a skill at first lvl?
I hope this makes sense... :P

I really have tried figureing this out, RM seemed somewhat exhaustive at first to digest, but most makes sense after the 5th time thru the various rulesets

Paul

Offline pastaav

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Re: New players/GM question about character creation
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2009, 01:52:51 AM »
I think that both interpretations has merit. Myself I rule that hobby ranks, TP ranks and DP ranks are all considered separately, but I could easily see the argument for that limitations of some sort would give more balanced characters.
/Pa Staav

Offline markc

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Re: New players/GM question about character creation
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2009, 02:58:37 AM »
I looked in my RMSS for answers to your question.
A1) If you look at T-1.6 pg 58 , you can see that in some areas PC's get more than 3 ranks in specific skills. But you also have Hobby ranks. I could not find the exact quote in the book but I am sure that Hobby Ranks are bound by the characters "profession progression". 
A2) Apprenticeship and Training package Skill Ranks; pg 266 of RMSS says that TP skills are "special training" that are outside the normal skill buying process. So you can buy more ranks after that. But you also most note that no TP can give the PC more than 10 ranks in any skills. All skill allocations that go beyond the 10 rank are lost with no discount to the TP cost.
 A2A) To me that says the PC buys the TP marks off the DP cost then uses the rest of his DP to buy skills. After he is done he applies the ranks for the TP, losing any ranks over 10. This does allow some planing on the players part but to it is not really a big deal in the grand scope of things.
 A2B) It is very important to keep track of the little things in TP's. The biggest of these is time. TP's take time to learn and acquire on the players part. Also remember that these TP's may not fit in the GM's game so he may disallow or change any TP in his game. The most common thing that GM's change or throw out is the specials the the TP give, such as money, items and or contacts. 

 What I do: On a grid sheet [ie skills on the left side and numbered blank boxes across the top] you write the skill name and fill in all the ranks you have from adolescence with a little a. For Hobby Ranks I place a H in each cell so I can tell the difference between a [adolescence or little a] and H [Hobby]. The when I move on for Apprenticeship I use a A [big a] and for each Training Package I use a TP# [TP for Training Package and the number to determine which TP the ranks came from], and I require the player to keep a numbered list of the TP's each has acquired. For levels after App I just use the levels number to represent the skill entry. So 1 rank in a skill at 3rd level is listed in the cell as a 3.

 Example: Lets say I have a TP that gives 4 ranks, adol gives 2 ranks, App 3 ranks and 3 Hobby Ranks. In the skill sheet column each entry gets its own cell and would be listed like this Skill: a,a,H,H,H,A,A,A,TP1,TP1. This is because TP's cannot give ranks after the 10th rank. A smart player or a kind GM might point this out to the player so he could change his PC.
 I do it this way so I the GM and the player can see where everything came from. Also as a GM I might take a copy of the sheet to keep in my files in case the PC's sheet is destroyed in some way[Usually Pizza grease, soda or beer spill]. This method has helped me in many games to prevent skill bonus explosion and skill bonus creep. It also allows me to have penalties or bonuses be applied to the PC without them noticing it.
 I have also tampered with special skill symbolology such as G or GM for GM skill ranks, B for Book skill ranks, M for magic skill ranks and maybe one or two I do not remember right now.

House Rule 1: As a house rule I say that a PC cannot gain more then 10 ranks for a skill by TP's. This is a different than the rule above as it allows the PC to gain more ranks.
House Rule 2: I tend to find beginning PC in RM [1st level] tough to play so I allow the players to create PC of rank 3 if they are pure arms, 4th for semi and 5th for Pure and Hybrid spell casters. To me this allows a good mix of skills and spells and prevents early TPK. 

Hope that was not too much info but if you have any more Q's just post them and I will try and answer them.

MDC
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Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
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Offline Ecthelion

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Re: New players/GM question about character creation
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2009, 03:17:35 AM »
During creation you have Adolescent, hobby and then TP/DP skills to develop.
1. Hobby ranks are limited by the DP values but are they limited by ranks available?
Except DP costs there is also the limit that you can only develop as many Hobby Ranks as you could develop ranks normally. So a Fighter, with a cost of 1/5 for his first weapon, can put 2 Hobby Ranks into his first weapon while a Magician, with a cost of 9, can put only 1 Hobby Rank into it. But it does not matter how many ranks the skill already has prior to adding the Hobby Ranks.
Quote
2. If say you are limited to 3 ranks for a specific skill at 1st lvl can you spend 3 hobby ranks and then take a training package that gives you ranks in that skill? or more so can you also then spend DP to increase that skill again? resulting in 6 or even more ranks in a skill at first lvl?
Yes, this is possible. E.g. if you want to create a Dwarf Fighter that uses a warhammer as primary weapon then this character will start with 4 Adolescense ranks. Since a Fighter can develop 2 ranks for his first weapon 2 Hobby Ranks are allowed, for a total of 6 ranks now. Adding e.g. the Soldier and the City Guard TPs will add another 4 ranks for a total of 10 (developing more than 10 ranks using a TP is normally not allowed). Finally the character may also develop 2 ranks normally, for a total of 12 ranks in level 1. Whether you encourage such a strong specialization on the primary weapon is up to you, but rules-wise it is allowed...

Offline jolt

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Re: New players/GM question about character creation
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2009, 11:21:28 AM »
In our game we had capped it at 10 ranks regardless.  It never made sense to us that, for example, if you buy your regular ranks first and then the TP's, you're capped at 10 but if you buy the TP's and then your regular ranks you're able to get 12 (or more depending on what you get from adolescence).  We never found any real merit in that distinction so we simply ruled that nothing lets you start the game (at 1st level) with more than 10 ranks in a skill.

jolt
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Offline BlackSquirrel

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Re: New players/GM question about character creation
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2009, 08:58:03 AM »
I have always ruled that hobby ranks are level 0 (part of adolescent development).  TP's or other DP purchases for level 1 have no bearing on them.

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: New players/GM question about character creation
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2009, 09:48:34 PM »
1. Hobby ranks are limited by the DP values but are they limited by ranks available?

You should not get more hobby ranks in a skill than you are able to purchase in a single level, but the assignment of hobby ranks does NOT interfere with what you may purchase in a single level.

For example, if you are allowed to purchase 2 ranks in Meditation per level, you can put 2 ranks in from your Hobby ranks. You can then also purchase another two ranks normally.


2. If say you are limited to 3 ranks for a specific skill at 1st lvl can you spend 3 hobby ranks and then take a training package that gives you ranks in that skill? or more so can you also then spend DP to increase that skill again? resulting in 6 or even more ranks in a skill at first lvl?

Ranks from Training Packages do NOT count against the number of ranks you can acquire in a single level. Just as Hobby ranks do not count the number you may purchase per level.

So, yes, you can end up with more than the "per level" limit on skill ranks at first level.