Author Topic: Bard Spells and singing/playing instruments  (Read 2850 times)

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Offline craggles

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Bard Spells and singing/playing instruments
« on: April 26, 2009, 11:22:38 AM »
Hi Again. More questions... Bards and their Controlling Songs spells this time!

My wife's a Bard and one of the Base lists for a Bard is Controlling Songs. In this list are spells that can stun, hold or sleep an opponent. The Special Note at the bottom of the list says that the bard needs to provide some form of entertainment for the duration of the spell.

Two things came to mind on that one - if the idea is to incapacitate an opponent (by sleeping him for instance) in order to sneak past into a lair, wouldn't singing/tale-telling/playing instruments etc draw attention to the PCs from any other opponent that might be loitering nearby which would ruin the sneaking part of the plan?

And 2, is a 'play instrument' static manoeuvre be needed in order to cast the spell or could it enhance the effect of the spell?

I was thinking of adding in the static manoeuvre so depending on how successful the play instrument was, it could potentially increase the targets or duration or potentially decrease them too. (Now that she's become very proficient in singing and playing the lute there is the possibility of beefing up the spells as they seem very weak overall).

But as these spells require some form of auditory component in order to cast them, I can't see a way around the first point of attracting unwanted attention.

Has anyone else come across this and use funky house rules to compensate?
(short of casting spells from the other Bard Base lists like 'Silence' from the Sound Control list that limits an area that the sound can be heard - which is going overkill when you compare a Closed Essence spell of 'Sleep V' which is a level 1 spell of Spirit Mastery and it effects targets whose level add up to 5. That's far more powerful and covert AND it's only a Closed list - not even a Profession's Base list!)
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Offline Ecthelion

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Re: Bard Spells and singing/playing instruments
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2009, 01:20:20 PM »
Two things came to mind on that one - if the idea is to incapacitate an opponent (by sleeping him for instance) in order to sneak past into a lair, wouldn't singing/tale-telling/playing instruments etc draw attention to the PCs from any other opponent that might be loitering nearby which would ruin the sneaking part of the plan?
Absolutely IMO. One of the drawbacks of this list.
Quote
And 2, is a 'play instrument' static manoeuvre be needed in order to cast the spell or could it enhance the effect of the spell?
A maneuver is not required. And I would not allow an enhancement of the spell.
Quote
I was thinking of adding in the static manoeuvre so depending on how successful the play instrument was, it could potentially increase the targets or duration or potentially decrease them too. (Now that she's become very proficient in singing and playing the lute there is the possibility of beefing up the spells as they seem very weak overall).
Or it might be a nice idea to allow the player to use his ranks in Play Instrument instead of his Base Spells bonus if he makes such a maneuver. Personally I'd only allow the spell to gain more power through such a maneuver when an UM 100 is rolled.

Offline markc

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Re: Bard Spells and singing/playing instruments
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2009, 05:37:14 PM »
Ecthelion,
 Has provided the same answers that I would have given you. And yes some spells are not as good as others do to requirements even if they apply the same mechanical affect.
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Offline craggles

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Re: Bard Spells and singing/playing instruments
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2009, 05:58:41 PM »
Ah - so there's just no way around that then. :(

Hi Ecthelion, I understand you not wanting to make the spell more powerful, but I'm umming and arring on the subject due to it's extreme rubbishness compared to a level 1 spell in a closed list.

The Bard has to be good at something, surely!  :-\
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Offline markc

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Re: Bard Spells and singing/playing instruments
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2009, 07:15:53 PM »
 IMO the only way to get around it would be to restrict sound out of a given area so no one who is not the target can hear the song.
 Also you might be able to change the groups tactics and have the song work. IE the Bard plays outside the gates and allows the rest of the party to sneak in and out by keeping the guards busy.

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Offline ToM

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Re: Bard Spells and singing/playing instruments
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2009, 03:12:49 AM »
The Bard has to be good at something, surely!  :-\
On this, I will link you THIS TOPIC we discussed on enhancing the bard in some way: http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=7724.0

BTW, staying on your topic, I don't really think Controlling Songs is rubbish compared to other similar spells around.
Even compared to the Spirit Mastery or Calm Spirits lists it has its edge. Because spells on the CS list can affect targets disregarding target's level, and that's all. In my gaming experience, Bards are the ONLY characters along with Mentalists that can handle high level foes with Fm spells.

Also, the whole list is worth buying at least for lvl 2's "Holding Song". Best. Low. Level. Spell. Ever. Period.
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Offline Ecthelion

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Re: Bard Spells and singing/playing instruments
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2009, 03:23:54 AM »
Ah - so there's just no way around that then. :(

Hi Ecthelion, I understand you not wanting to make the spell more powerful, but I'm umming and arring on the subject due to it's extreme rubbishness compared to a level 1 spell in a closed list.

The Bard has to be good at something, surely!  :-\
For improving the Bard's spell effects the Sound Projection (or was it Sound Control?) spell list is useful. Have you thought about the effects of e.g. the combination of a Song 50' and a Song of Mastery? Few professions can exert such power as these spells combine and e.g. control a whole unit of opponents during a battle (or a large part of the Balrog's troll guard, as once done by one of my characters). Improving the spells via Play Instrument maneuvers is therefore IMO not necessary.

I agree though, that the Bard is relatively weak at lower levels. That's why I put quite a lot of ranks into their melee abilities first. But starting with level 8 or so the spells of the Bard can become quite useful. You can take a look at e.g. the character Tarcil in the character gallery on my homepage to see how I developed a Bard. But beware, I am one of those dreaded power-gamers  :o.

Offline Arioch

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Re: Bard Spells and singing/playing instruments
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2009, 03:34:23 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH5fC9H8yJA

Min 6:35 -> that's how bards work...
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Offline craggles

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Re: Bard Spells and singing/playing instruments
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2009, 04:57:12 AM »
:D

That was nice! visiting youTube for the rest in the series! :D
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