Topic: DB, Shield & Parry questions

[craggles]

I have a few questions (yeah, I know - what a surprise, more questions!)

Before I start, I need to set the terms to make it easier for the questions...

• Natural DB is 3xQu Stat Bonus and your Racial DB Bonus. If a hobbit has a Qu bonus of 2, his Natural DB will be 36 (3x2 + 30 (the Hobbit's Racial DB Bonus))
• Shield DB is the DB bonus for using a shield (a normal shield gives the wielder a +20DB for Melee and missile attacks)
• Enhanced DB is the magical DB you gain from magical items (like a +10DB ring, a +5DB circlet, a +15DB armour etc)

The statements that I believe to be correct are in blue and the questions about them are in green. If the main statements are in error, please let me know...

Your Natural DB is you ducking and diving to avoid an attack that you know about. If you are stationary or are unaware of an attack, your Natural DB is effectively 0 for that attack.

• Would only 3xQu bonus be effected but your Racial DB remain (as it's harder to hit a hobbit because they're so small hence the +30 Racial DB)
• Does this also include your Enhanced DB from items?
• If you're already in a melee situation (and ducking and diving etc) against 1 opponent, if you were unaware of a second attacker behind you, would your Natural DB count against the second attacker as you're already ducking and diving the first opponent? (In this situation, I would use half of the Natural DB against the second opponent as he's already moving about - unless there's a specific official ruling)
• Does your Enhanced DB count verses everyone even if you're stationary and/or are unaware of an attack (because it's a magical enhancement)?

You can only use your Shield DB against one opponent. You can only use your parry against the opponent you're attacking and even if you use all your OB to Parry, you still make a 0 OB attack. You can also use your Shield DB for this opponent or you could use it against a second opponent to your shield side.
In this situation, you can only increase your Natural DB against a maximum of 2 opponents - one with a shield and one with your parry.

• When facing Multiple opponents, do you count your Natural DB against everyone that you're aware of (as well as the above 2 opponents)? Or against everyone in general?

Using all your OB to parry gives you an extra 'Shield Bonus' for certain weapons - a +15 for a Main Gauche or a +5 for 1 handed weapons etc.

• If you use your shield as a Shield Bash attack as part of your 2 weapon combo, does it's Shield Bonus get dropped at all as you're effectively using it as a weapon and not as a shield for that round?
• If you develop a 'Shield Bash' skill, can you use that OB to split it as extra parry as well?
• Do you need to learn 2 weapon combat in your right hand weapon and your shield in your left hand (as well as learning the 'Shield Bash' skill in your 1HC category) or do you only need to do that for a weapon in each hand?

More than one spell with the same name can't be in effect on the same location. For instance, Cloaking I and Cloaking V aren't accumulative and only the higher of the bonuses are used.

• Is this the same with bonus items - like having multiple different items combine to give you a large Enhanced DB or would only the highest bonus count?

Other Questions

• If someone is in motion (like walking down a road, sitting on a horse that's walking down a road, sitting on an elephant that's walking down the road, like sitting on someone's shoulders who's walking down the road etc (I'm sure you get the picture)), would they have any Natural DB? (again, I'd use half their Natural DB in this case if they're not aware of the attack but are in motion - but would they gain all of their Enhanced DB? I would say 'Yes' as it's magical)
• In this scenario, if someone was carrying their shield and the attack came from their shield side, I'd grant that PC a +20 Partial Cover bonus (which happens to be the same DB Bonus as a Normal Shield as it happens). What would you do?

I'm sure there'll be more questions on the subject so be forewarned.

Thanks.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

I have a few questions (yeah, I know - what a surprise, more questions!)

Before I start, I need to set the terms to make it easier for the questions...

• Natural DB is 3xQu Stat Bonus and your Racial DB Bonus. If a hobbit has a Qu bonus of 2, his Natural DB will be 36 (3x2 + 30 (the Hobbit's Racial DB Bonus))

Two things....

1) ICE does not have Hobbits in its game, it has Halflings.

2) That "racial DB" is ONLY against heat and cold attacks. It does not apply against other attacks at all.

• Shield DB is the DB bonus for using a shield (a normal shield gives the wielder a +20DB for Melee and missile attacks)
• Enhanced DB is the magical DB you gain from magical items (like a +10DB ring, a +5DB circlet, a +15DB armour etc)

The statements that I believe to be correct are in blue and the questions about them are in green. If the main statements are in error, please let me know...

Your Natural DB is you ducking and diving to avoid an attack that you know about. If you are stationary or are unaware of an attack, your Natural DB is effectively 0 for that attack.

• Would only 3xQu bonus be effected but your Racial DB remain (as it's harder to hit a hobbit because they're so small hence the +30 Racial DB)

DB from Qu is reduced when the target cannot move. All other DB remains. And "Natural DB" remains at all times, unless a spell or a critical or a condition (such as being prone), removes it.

Surprise limits the percentage of activity that may be performed, it does NOT remove DB.

Those making surprise attacks get OB modifiers. Bonuses to the attack. Reducing DB as well would be giving the attacker a double benefit and the target a double penalty.

• Does this also include your Enhanced DB from items?

You always get DB from items as long as you are wearing or holding those items correctly.

• If you're already in a melee situation (and ducking and diving etc) against 1 opponent, if you were unaware of a second attacker behind you, would your Natural DB count against the second attacker as you're already ducking and diving the first opponent? (In this situation, I would use half of the Natural DB against the second opponent as he's already moving about - unless there's a specific official ruling)
• Does your Enhanced DB count verses everyone even if you're stationary and/or are unaware of an attack (because it's a magical enhancement)?

If you are in melee, you get your full  DB against all attacks (only the DB from Parry and shield are variable). This is why attackers get positional bonuses.

If you cut normal DB, then you should not use positional modifiers.

You can only use your Shield DB against one opponent. You can only use your parry against the opponent you're attacking and even if you use all your OB to Parry, you still make a 0 OB attack. You can also use your Shield DB for this opponent or you could use it against a second opponent to your shield side.
In this situation, you can only increase your Natural DB against a maximum of 2 opponents - one with a shield and one with your parry.

• When facing Multiple opponents, do you count your Natural DB against everyone that you're aware of (as well as the above 2 opponents)? Or against everyone in general?

Against everyone, period. Attackers will receive positional modifiers and modifiers for surprise if the character is not aware of them.

Using all your OB to parry gives you an extra 'Shield Bonus' for certain weapons - a +15 for a Main Gauche or a +5 for 1 handed weapons etc.

• If you use your shield as a Shield Bash attack as part of your 2 weapon combo, does it's Shield Bonus get dropped at all as you're effectively using it as a weapon and not as a shield for that round?

If you are using it as a weapon, then you are not using it as a shield, thus no shield bonus. In fact, you would get no shield bonus from it unless you were not using it to make an attack at all.

In other words, if you are using it as a weapon, then you need to treat it like any other weapon being used for defense. And according to the table on page 214 of RMFRP, you only get a weapon's bonus to DB if you are not using it to attack.

• If you develop a 'Shield Bash' skill, can you use that OB to split it as extra parry as well?

Technically, you would only get the shield bonus ONLY when doing a full parry.

• Do you need to learn 2 weapon combat in your right hand weapon and your shield in your left hand (as well as learning the 'Shield Bash' skill in your 1HC category) or do you only need to do that for a weapon in each hand?

I would say that you would need to learn two weapon combo. And that means following the normal rules for it.

More than one spell with the same name can't be in effect on the same location. For instance, Cloaking I and Cloaking V aren't accumulative and only the higher of the bonuses are used.

• Is this the same with bonus items - like having multiple different items combine to give you a large Enhanced DB or would only the highest bonus count?

That is a tricky question. There are no specific rules against multiple DB items working together.

Personally, I would allow almost all DB items to work, especially if they are or can be described as giving the bonus in different ways.

Other Questions

• If someone is in motion (like walking down a road, sitting on a horse that's walking down a road, sitting on an elephant that's walking down the road, like sitting on someone's shoulders who's walking down the road etc (I'm sure you get the picture)), would they have any Natural DB? (again, I'd use half their Natural DB in this case if they're not aware of the attack but are in motion - but would they gain all of their Enhanced DB? I would say 'Yes' as it's magical)

As long as they are capable of movement, they get their full DB.

• In this scenario, if someone was carrying their shield and the attack came from their shield side, I'd grant that PC a +20 Partial Cover bonus (which happens to be the same DB Bonus as a Normal Shield as it happens). What would you do?

They get full bonus for the shield. In RM there is no skill involved in gaining DB from a shield, thus as long as the criteria for receiving that DB is met (attack froms from the shield side), they get the full bonus for the shield.

[markc]

Natural DB
1) Racial DB Bonus: IMO no you have to be aware of the attack to receive the bonus.
2) Item DB Bonuses: The short answer is it depends on how they work. Are they armor? Spell effects? Or other effect? So basically how does the item work and then as a GM you have to make a decision. In general it is not recommended to have items that provide strait a DB bonus. You should always describe just what an item does instead of just saying its a +10 ring to DB.
3) Back attacks: In the rules the rear attacker gets a bonus to offset the quickness bonus. Also the shield bonus only applies to the facing it faces or you can allow the wielder to declair a facing.
4) Magical enhancements: Again it depends on how the magical enhancements work.
Note House Rule: As a house rule I decrease a persons DB by 20 per additional attack beyond the first attack. I also rarely apply the shield bonus to more than one attack. Note there is a martial art ability that allows the shield DB to be applied to more than one attack. There may also be a magical ability that allows a shield to block more than one attack and that would apply to more than one attack.

Next Situation:
 See above about multiple attackers, shield DB and natural DB. Again I use the house rule above as IMO it is closer to what I woudl expect RL to be but in the rules it applies to everyone.
 1) If you declare a full defense you do not get to have a +0 attack but instead gain a bonus to your defense.

  I think I am going to need to look at the specific rule set you are using for the other examples. Are you using the basic RMSS/FRP rules? The Combat Companion rules? Or the Martial Arts Companion rules?

MDC

[craggles]

Hi Rasyr,

Opps - I've counted the DBs for the different races as Racial DBs but only applied the RR bonuses to the specific situations. I just read it really badly it appears and I assumed them to be 2 different statements - 'a Racial DB and also some RRs vs specific things' as opposed to 'both DB AND RRs vs specific things'. Time to change the sheets again - The PCs were so happy when I added those extra DBs for the Halflings, Dwarves and Elves.
...and sorry for the 'hobbit'.

Thanks for the quick response guys!

Natural DB I'll be keeping the Qux3 DB for the characters at all times (and removing that hot/cold Only DB from them except in the specific situations) unless they're physically unable to move.

Shield DB - One of the characters wants to use it as a Shield Bash attack. They've got the -20 being the off-hand and they've put DPs into the 2 Weapon Combat skill so I'll simply treat it as a standard weapon for this scenario (and I think I understand the rules for that - it was just the addition of the shield bash skill that I was unclear on).
In this case, if they parried with the shield, they could get a much higher parry bonus than they would have got if they used just a shield on it's own. Presumably, if they parried with 100% of their OB with the shield, they'll also get the extra +20 Shield Bonus?
This could give the PC a lower OB to attack (depending on the 2W combat bonus) but would be well worth it if they needed to block a tunnel against a more powerful opponent and go 100% OB to parry with both the weapon and shield gaining the extra +5/+20 Shield bonus for the weapon/shield respectively. With the LayHealer behind the PC providing healing should they the bad guy get lucky.
As there's no difference to how the First Aid and Magic works (discussed in a previous question of mine), I've ruled that being healed magically is instant and doesn't need the same rest and recouperation First Aid needs. That may actually be the only house rule (regarding the rules) that I have.

Hi MarkC
I like some of the optional house rules you have. I'm currently using the RMFRP rules (I have all the RMFRP companions as well as all the RMSS companions that were not reprinted (which includes the MA Companion - although I'm not using any of those rules in my current game)). I've read the core books many times (and there's still little bits of info that I find each time that I'd misread, misunderstood initially) but am half way though most of the companions. The more I get from the companions, I need to edit everyone's sheets to reflect my new understanding or new skills given or new uses for existing skills etc.
The Mentalism Companion seems to be a direct reprint of the RMSS version (I can only assume) as it still references RMSS throughout the book (and not RMFRP) and it even talks of 'Mental Combat' referring to section 7.2 which is Ritual Magic in this version 

RMFRP p212 says that "Even if a combatant parries with 100% of his OB, he must still make a +0 OB attack"

Enhanced DB - You've both mentioned that it 'depends on how the DB item works'. RMFRP p213 says that there may be special items that increase the wearer's DB so I've have just being giving out items that have an extra OB or DB bonus (sparingly though).
Should these bonuses be more specific magically wise? Like having a constant 'Blur' or 'Bladeturn' type spell in effect (or for a limited 'daily' item)?
I mostly have +Bonus (Magical) OB weapons around (which does fit as the OB is the reason the item is used) but I've left a few +Bonus OB rings around the place as well. The reason I did that initially is because when I was a PC last (15yrs ago using RM2) the GM gave out items of a similar nature. Looks like I'll have to re-think some of my random items.

How do you fit low level magical items into your worlds?
In the Treasure companion, it lists potent and artifacts as well as peoples submissions into the Vault, the Guild Companion and the RMQuartilies but these are specific high-level items.
I use Inspiration Pad Pro 2 and I've created lots of variables that I use to generate random treasure for the PCs if the creature they've faced has Very Poor to Very Rich items. It's roughly based on the Treasure Companion's random item generation without the high end PP multipliers and Daily Items.

Thanks

[markc]

RMFRP page 212;
 Yes if you do a full defense you get a +5 to your DB and cannot attack.
 You can declare all OB into DB and make a +0 attack. [This has a lot of use in my game with the house rule of it decreases the targets DB by 20 per additional attack beyond 1. Note also the target may have some DB that I might not reduce such as if the DB was do to heavy skin or dense bone structure etc. There are no rules that I know of and I make my determination on the fly depending on the creature.]

 IMO yes you should decide on just how an item provides a bonus.
ie on weapons is it magical or material bonus. In most cases it will be material in nature as if you go by the RMSS TC magical provides +5 over the material bonus.
But you can also have maybe a craftsmanship bonus [I do not think the TC has rules for this] or a made for bonus like in armor [again a house rule].

ie Armor can have a few sources as well. Material, magic, craftsmanship and special. IE special might be a bonus for fire attacks or something like that.

Treasure: In general I use simple material bonuses to most low level treasure. So a +5 low steel sword or a +10 high steel sword. [I think I have those right] or maybe a 1 shot spell, low level daily or weekly items etc.
 I can say that I use the TC as a guide only and have created my own rules for my game. I am not ready to share it yet so I am afraid I cannot give you any more insight into what I do.

 The past: I do think  way back when in RM there was a lot of +OB, +DB, +skill items with no rational behind them. But now a days people ask for a bit more design and thought into items so you have to provide that to them. This extra detail means that some items from way back when cannot be rationalized and so they go the way of the DoDo Bird.
MDC

[craggles]

Fortunately, there are no rings out in play with the PCs currently for OB or DB bonuses so I'll remove them from my random generator. DB Armour, Shields and Helms as well as OB weapons can stay.

I recall questioning the ring bonuses at the time now you mention it but I accepted them happily as it helped my character anyway.

[markc]

 Combat Example: Sword and Shield w/ shield bash ability.

 If a combatant has sword and shield 2 Weapon Combat style then some basic things apply to them.
Note: I may be wrong about how you are viewing the whole attack, defend and weapon styles. In your above example everything you do [ie attack, defend etc] with the style the basic combat rules apply to. I will explain more below.

Attack Options: Note this will be different if you use the rules from the CC vs. MAC
1) Sword attack + defend with shield [apply shield bonus to DB]
2) Sword defend + shield attack [no shield bonus to DB, if weapon gets a bonus to defend then apply]
3) Sword attack and shield attack [no shield bonus to DB]
4) Full defend [all OB into DB]
 Now lets say you have an OB of 100 with sword [with special +15 to DB if used to defend], a normal shield  [+20 DB] with s shield OB of 50.
Applying Attack options.
1) Sword attack and shield defend [use 100 OB of sword attack normally and apply +20 to DB for shield]
2) Sword defend and shield attack [use 50 OB of shield at attack and apply +15 for sword to DB for defending]
3) Sword attack and shield attack; Note this example applies if they make a 0 OB attack with either weapon. [First set the ob % you would like to use and apply it to both attacks. So if you wanted to make a 50% attack your sword attack would have a 50 OB [and 50 into DB] and your shield OB is 25 to attack [none into DB and no shield bonus to DB.]
4) Full defend with both weapons; in this case you do not make an attack and you figure out the best DB bonus for each weapon and apply the best one. So all OB of sword and +15 for using it defensively = 100+15+5=120, for shield max = 50+5=55. So apply 120 to DB from weapon style and +20 to DB for shield to get = 140 DB.

Common Problems:
1) When attacking with both weapons you figure out the % of OB you are using with the highest OB weapon and then apply that % to the other weapons OB. Example 100 OB [decide to attack with 75 defend with 25, your second weapons OB is 60 ;its OB would be .75*60 = 45. The bigger portion of OB going to DB is 25 sword and 15 second weapon so you apply the 25 to DB.
2) It can get even more confusing if you are using other combat style options but I think the above examples can allow you to solve the problem if you reduce it to % of OB.
3) It can take players a little time to get used to the method but IMO almost anyone can do it. If you are using a computer you could make a simple program or spreed sheet to aid the player or just use a calculator to do it by hand. If fact quite a few calculators today allow you to have programs on them.
4) I also have found it works best if you figure out a PC's DB for full defense, various attack options, stun, stun no parry and any other special options you use in combat.

MDC

[craggles]

Thanks Mark,

I'm not using the MAC rules at all (so no Weapon Styles) - it's just straight OB for weapon and shield and a 2-Weapon Combat skill. They're currently levelling out at about 100OB for both and a 100 skill bonus for the 2-Weapon Combat so their OBs aren't being penalised (or not by much) for using them both together. The Dwarf is a fighter and using a War Hammer with a Shield (both 1H-C and it's his primary Weapon Cat hence the bonuses)

I should pick up the Combat Companion - I've been put off in the past as it's not in the list of RMFRP books on the Online shop but I see in the description that it's 100% compatible with RMFRP rules. My next order will have to include that (as well as Spacemaster perhaps)

[markc]

 The CC is compatible with RMFRP but IMO not 100% unless you make some changes to the RMFRP rule structure. The combat styles are like the ones in the max with a different system and do require some changes to the RMFRP rules. The same can be said for Armor by the Piece rules and the new professions are being converted by someone IIRC. You could use the new spell lists with out to much trouble or not trouble.

But again the martial art rules will require some changes to your game for weapon costs, hand to hand costs, skills removed and placed in martial styles. I think that is all but I could be wrong.

As you are using the Two Weapon Combat [TWC] rules from the book I think my example answers all your questions and the questions of your players. But if you need more just post them and I will get to them ASAP depending on what I have boiling.

MDC

[craggles]

Thanks Mark

Armour by the piece is something I've been wanting for a while now to make it more realistic - bu presumably it'll need a lot of changes to the Excel sheet I'm using for my Characters.  :'(

Hopefully the Fantasy Grounds system will have all the mini calculations needed for the CC without needing to work out how to add them in myself - Damn it Jim, I'm a designer, not a programmer!

[craggles]

Hi Mark

I've found the Combat Companion in the UK (which is a lot cheaper than buying it from ICE & pay massive postage (even with my Temple Map winning a runners up prize)) and before I do, are there any other RMC products that are also compatible with RMFRP? (looking through the shop again at the individual products and I can't see any that specifically mention the RMFRP compatibility so I thought I'd ask the question first)

Thanks

[markc]

 Well I can say that a lot of the RM2 PDF's of discontinued products might/may be of help from an info stand point. But I cannot say that you can use everyone without any problems.
 If asking what to buy IMO I would use your best judgment and maybe look for holes in your gaming library that you might need to fill. But also you have to remember the age of some of the book in question. I can say that I often look through the books [Do to answering questions but also if I need info]. But I always try and remember when the product was made and what for.
 Another idea is to start picking up Spacemaster and mixing it with your RM. But in the RMC realm know that SM2 is compatible but remember the better explained rules in RMC that may contradict stuff in SM2. Or you could also pick up SM:P for RMSS.
 I also like Star Strike and Armored Assault [SM2] for use with SM:P and SM:P Vehicle Comp. I mix the two rule sets but mainly use the SS and AA. I also like War Law as a mass battle system for RMSS but again it is written for RM2 so some mods have to be created to use it with out any hitches. But in general War Law can be used with no problems depending on the rules you use.

 I know some of the stuff above in not available from the ICE Store but you might find them somewhere else and if they are cheep [enough] then I would pick them up as they have some great info.

 Also what other games do you play if you have a chance? I seem to remember that you do not get a chance to play anything veyr much bit often I find my RM books useful with other systems.
MDC

[craggles]

Hi Mark,

Rolemaster is the only one I play - and that's just because I've got my 2 daughter's hooked on it.
(I wanted to find something that we could do as a family besides sit in front of the TV. I get frequent & bad cluster headaches and migraines so going on long walks is also out of the question for me)

This is the first time roleplaying again for many years and this is the first time I've GMed as well. I've spent a lot of money amassing the complete set of RMFRP (as well as all the RMSS companions that weren't reprinted inc Essence Companion & MAC) as well as a shed full of time learning it all so I'm not wanting to stray beyond the RMFRP rules just yet. I'm hoping to amass some more competition's rewards before I stick my next order in the ICE shop - which will be the complete Spacemaster set and as they share a lot of the same rules with RMFRP, it should be something that's easy to move onto.

I'm still barely half way in reading on a lot of the Companions so far so extra info is found on a weekly basis - although I don't see the reason why RMSS core books have language developed in a certain way, then it was changed in the Essence Companion and then it was changed in the Mentalist companion - yet the RMFRP core book came out AFTER the RMSS companions and yet still used the RMSS core book's language again only to be changed in the RMFRP version of the Mentalism Companion (as it was in the RMSS's version) but as it seems to refer to RMSS and not RMFRP in the book, I'm wondering why it was ever re-printed if it wasn't changed at all (even to pretend that it's a RMFRP Companion and not something with a different cover).

I also have RM2 as well as the companions 1-7 from my college days and I've been picking out bits here and there from those rules that RMFRP doesn't seem to have elaborated on - but I don't want to start to learn an entirely new system like RMC or SP2.

In the meantime, I'll order the CC in the UK as I'm too impatient to hopefully accumulate more credit in the ICE competitions. Spacemaster can wait for the moment. I'm very pleased with my hardback RMFRP core book and I'd love to have enough credit for the Spacemaster's hardbacks! (finger's crossed)

[markc]

Craggles;
 Since you have most of them I would start thinking about things that will aid your game world. Or maybe you want to start branching out into Shadowworld, which can be used with RMSS/FRP with some little conversions as most of it is RM2/C/X.

 Guess: I am going to guess that the RMFRP reprint was just looking at the original book and making minor changes. The same goes with the other reprints. The other thing you have to remember is that most of the books are by different authors and probably very different home games. They also came out over a long period of time and were created by 2 companies [I think]. All of those factors can have the items you mentioned above.
 
 I think when/if a new version of RM comes along [2012+?] it will be able to look at the whole breadth of info from RM2/C/C and RMSS/FRP and provide a better layout.

 I guess my advice is to wait a little bit and absorb the info you have and in a few weeks I think you will be better able to answer your own question. That is unless there is some super sale that can shift your "have to buy" point.

MDC

[craggles]

Would I be right in assuming that Tim wrote the CC (or at least a large portion of it)?

If that is the case, how close to his blog is the 'Armour by Piece' section in the CC?
http://www.wizlair.net/index.php/page,6.html

Ebay is tempting me with the CC for ?11.79 delivered - I'm not thinking another offer like that is going to appear anytime soon. As well as that, there's Spacemaster Privateers sitting there with a starting bid of ?7.99 inc postage... and there's 2 of them. I'm finding it hard to resist even though I plan to buy the value pack of Spacemaster after entering every competition ICE makes for the next yr or so.

[markc]

Craggles;
 I love SM:P simply for the psi skills. The system it different from the spell casting in RMSS but IMO you can [I did] use it in a fantasy game.
 The Psi skills have a category for specific psi powers and then each power gets it own skill. It is a very sweet system and you can think of it as almost opposite of the RMSS spell casting. In spell casting the caster has to wait to cast the spell for about 2 rounds in psi skills you cast it right away and have to wait a period to recover from your exertion. During this recovery time the psi is almost defenseless.
MDC   

[craggles]

Well, the bid is in and I'll have a sneak peek at the book before I manage to amass enough credit by entering ALL of ICEs comps for the next year (I'm bound to be lucky in one or two)

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

If that is the case, how close to his blog is the 'Armour by Piece' section in the CC?
http://www.wizlair.net/index.php/page,6.html

Yes, I wrote most of the CC.

No, those rules are nothing like what is in CC. They were written by a fellow named Cenwulf (who gave me permission to post them, a long long time ago).

[craggles]

In that case, it's being added to my wish list.

[craggles]

...and the PDF is now mine.