Topic: HARP Combat options

[jasonbrisbane]

jurasketu,

You should wait for my upcoming campaign involvig REALY TOUGH UNDEAD and DEMONS!

I've worked out these NPC to the N'th degree and the PC's are fighting them on Thier terms on their ground.....


I HOPE like Heck that the PC's do exactly what your suggesting and come back with backup, or the scout ahead, or do research (plan of the castle, etc), etc or else its going to be a slaughterfest....(TPK multiple times over).

Sometimes it DOES pay to run away so you can return to fight another day!
 

[sunwolf]

Before I ever played RM I played a lot of Runequest.  Surrendering and having someone pay ransom for you was a way of survival early on.  Of course when we got to be tough we would have people surrender to us for ransom.
Also Remember
"Brave Bold Sir Robin, bravely turned his tail and fled."  He survived however, his minstrel did not.

[Witchking20k]

Characters, aside from their players, have a survival instinct.  Thats what a moral/fear check simulates.  Since players have the option of enhancing stats that resist stamina/magic/will they should be used to the fullest.  I use Resist Will all the time, most games are centred around Stamina (combat) & Magic.  If the player wants the character to stand & fight vs undead and demons, they better develop resist will too.

[Karizma]

Characters, aside from their players, have a survival instinct.  Thats what a moral/fear check simulates.  Since players have the option of enhancing stats that resist stamina/magic/will they should be used to the fullest.  I use Resist Will all the time, most games are centred around Stamina (combat) & Magic.  If the player wants the character to stand & fight vs undead and demons, they better develop resist will too.

That's a really good point. Now that I think about it, I've only used Will checks on opponents when the Harper would cast Beguiling Voice or other such mind-dominating tool.

I do believe I will use this from now on!

[Mando]

Characters, aside from their players, have a survival instinct.  Thats what a moral/fear check simulates.  Since players have the option of enhancing stats that resist stamina/magic/will they should be used to the fullest.  I use Resist Will all the time, most games are centred around Stamina (combat) & Magic.  If the player wants the character to stand & fight vs undead and demons, they better develop resist will too.

I totally disagree. I will never play in a game where the GM tells me what my character does. Replace your roll with an RR vs. "magical aura of fear and distress" around big bad boys, and I will take it everyday. And I will now have an option to counter it through cunning or magic. The idea of a GM telling me: "your knight, even if I understand his "roleplayed" sacrifice action to save the group, is now fleeing from the demon prince" is not acceptable for me.

Players decide what their characters do, even if its foolish or insane, and GM decides what the NPCs and monsters do. Period. Some exceptionnal actions of legend I have seen during my 30 years around gaming tables would never have been possible if the GM had dictated what the players were doing.

My opinion, no offense

[Karizma]

Hmm. Another good point.

So how about instead of making the character do something, we have "Fear" as a status.  If a character is afraid, he can still choose to fight, but he'll receive a penalty.

This way, Fear is incorporated, but player still holds Free Will.

[Thos]

That's not a bad idea. Something similar to stun perhaps, but maybe with a resistance roll each round... Or perhaps a penalty that you may make a free action resistance roll for each round to reduce in increments?

[sunwolf]

Many games use such an option where a PC is under a penalty if they fail a roll.  Sometime the penalty can be eliminated by spending a hero pt, willpower pt, etc.

[jurasketu]

I see your point, yet I prefer to see players flee... In HARP, I do always allow a player to burn a fate point to recover their 'senses' from a failed fear/will type check. So I think it works out the same anyway.

Robin

[jasonbrisbane]

There was a cascading fear table in  a supplement/HB/etc that we use.

It gives the PC a RR roll, if they fail then the description tells what the character can do and the character is free to run wherever he wants, hide behind whatever, etc...

[Witchking20k]

I use a cascading RR where PCs resist using Will or Magic.  Morale & Fear are seperate things.  PCs can also develop Leadership & Public Speaking, roll it and the bonus achieved add to the Resistance of a comrad.  Paladins & Clerics have spells that aid in the Resistance.  These are all part of the mechanics of the game, and skills that a PC can easily develop.  Whats the harm?

I believe that part of the mystique of fighting undead & demons is overcoming the fear to do it.  Only a select few can stand against a foe that so blatantly defies nature & is in its very nature, evil.  It can easily be what seperates the professional soldier, town gaurd, or mercenary from a hero. 

GMing is very much a matter of style.  I'm not the sort that throws PCs up against a few skeletons or zombies every other session.  But, adding another layer to the challenge of fighting them makes players approach the situation differently in most cases.

[Thom @ ICE]

Interesting that characters have RR Will and RR Stamina...
Both identical mechanics.
An attack that requires a Stamina check - no one hesitates to use the mechanic.
An attack that attacks a characters Will - causes gamers to resist the mechanic.

This goes to the same idea that I have raised many times in the past... role playing negotiations, leadership, and in this case morale situations while game mechanics are ignored. 

Players with great negotiation skills who have characters with low Insight/Reasoning/Presence/Self-Discipline but have their characters negotiate wonderfully because of their ability - IMO - are not role playing their character. 

Translated to this situation would be ignoring a monster's "fear" ability for characters because a player refuses to follow the game mechanics and insists on not acting appropriately according to the game mechanics.

[jasonbrisbane]

Hi,

Yes, I think I'd like to see more ideas for RR rolls involving will in future HARP'ers bazaar's, etc....
I think it is obvious that this is an area that we can agree that would benefit form aditional work.

(Hint, hint Rasyr! )

[Witchking20k]

Players with great negotiation skills who have characters with low Insight/Reasoning/Presence/Self-Discipline but have their characters negotiate wonderfully because of their ability - IMO - are not role playing their character.

(I hope I did the quote thing right)

Agreed, the bottom line is that players choose their characters strengths & weaknesses.  To stay in character is to stay within the PCs limits too.  Let us not forget that we need to reward players for developing skills outside of the 20ish core adventuring skills, otherwise the game becomes very one dimensional and all the PCs have the same skills.  You'll notice that I mentioned that Public Speaking, Leadership etc. only aided in the use of a core skill, they didn't replace it. 

If a Player invests their DPs in a skill, they need to be rewarded.  If this discussion were regaurding Tactics, or Spell Lore, or Lock Lore.  All of which are secondary skills that compliment very important Primary Skills, I doubt people would be saying they were losing control of the character (or the GM was controlling the character), because these skills are meant to simulate what a PC knows that a Player will not.

[The Dude]

There was a cascading fear table in  a supplement/HB/etc that we use.

It gives the PC a RR roll, if they fail then the description tells what the character can do and the character is free to run wherever he wants, hide behind whatever, etc...

I'd like to see that. Do you remember where you got it?

[Thom @ ICE]

It can be found in HB #2

Without getting into the meat of it (you need to spend the $2 for that), here is the opening paragraph on the topic as a teaser....

CASCADING RRS FOR FEAR
In HARP, fear is normally treated as an all or nothing effect, meaning that you are either so afraid that you are running away or it isn?t affecting you. Several people have commented about this on the ICE forums. My solution to this possible issue is to have a Cascading Resistance Roll (CRR) for fear attacks. This will allow for a wider range of possible results and more opportunities for roleplaying, thus allowing characters to really test their mettle.

Enjoy!

[The Dude]

Ah, okay... with that bit of knowledge, I went back into the HB Annual and found it. Very well done indeed.