Topic: HARP Combat options

[bottg]

I am a long-term (~20 years) Rolemaster player, but am looking to run HARP for the same group i have been RMing with all of those years.  I have Martial law and H&S, and am wondering which combat system to use.

I note from the original system that it is impossible to kill an opponent with one blow with a medium weapon.  Is this right?  The ML tables expanded by location look pretty good, but are still non-lethal for medium weapons.  H&S looks far more lethal, with or without hit locations or randomised crits.

So which system do people prefer, and why?  I am particularly interested to hear how this compares to RM combat.

Thanks folks

[kreider204]

Don't open-ended rolls ignore damage caps?

Also, you could check out the condensed combat system from HARPer's Bazaar #11 (& #12).

[bottg]

I think it is only 99-100 that ignores the damage cap in the original system.
I have the Harpers Bazaar, but am planning on getting the other HB's this week.  I will check out #11.

On further reflection, the H&S system seems more RM like whilst retaining its own style

[kreider204]

The condensed combat system is basically a condensed version of RM.  H&S seems to be the most popular, definitely has style.
Oh, you can also institute a house rule and simply ignore damage caps.  Just warn your players. 

[jasonbrisbane]

Remember that a Power Attack gives a medium Weapon the max damage of 110, which if I recall correctly is a death blow...

So a Standard attack wont kill someone (instantly), but they wil bleed out if not treated.... so it is sorta deadly... we're all just used to having magic to heal bleeding wounds! 

[RandalThor]

I prefer the H&S rules, and belive that your Players will also, as they are coming from RM. The variety is great, and I prefer the more realistic ideology that one can be killed with a single hit from a broadsword. It makes Players think more and be more careful, both of which are good.

[Karizma]

I like Hack & Slash as it is the quick 'n easy resolution of Core system, but makes everything do more damage so that combat wouldn't take forever.

[Ecthelion]

I am a long-term (~20 years) Rolemaster player, but am looking to run HARP for the same group i have been RMing with all of those years.  I have Martial law and H&S, and am wondering which combat system to use.

I also came from RM to HARP and we are still looking from the best combat system...

I note from the original system that it is impossible to kill an opponent with one blow with a medium weapon.  Is this right?

Yes, but mind the comments above about the 99-00 rolls and Power Strike combat option, which a combatant will from time to time use, especially if the opponent is stunned.

The ML tables expanded by location look pretty good, but are still non-lethal for medium weapons.  H&S looks far more lethal, with or without hit locations or randomised crits.

H&S without randomized criticals seems the most deadly system to me because even small weapons can kill with one blow, even without Power Strike etc. With randomized criticals it seems less deadly to me, more similar to RM in its deadliness, only with damage starting earlier.

So which system do people prefer, and why?  I am particularly interested to hear how this compares to RM combat.

Currently I favor HB#11+12 because it seems the system most similar to RM. What I think we might try is using H&S with randomized criticals to have damage start earlier than with the HB#11+12 tables.

[jolt]

I like the HB's #11+12 as well.  Originally, I used a mish-mash of that, martial law options, H&S and a few other things but it ended up being clunky and so we just went to the HB system.

It's interesting when you try to fine tune something so much that when you finally have everything in there you want, you realise you hate it.  And things you would have sworn you couldn't live without you don't miss when they're gone.

jolt

[janpmueller]

Hi bottg,

I agree with kreider - HB11 or Hack n Slash are the best systems if you're looking for something RMish. My fellow GM and I also attempted to find something RMish, but wanted it a bit more simpler. Hack n Slash was what we ended up with.
HB11 is great if you're willing to swap a little simplicity for greater influence of armor.

If I may advertise: We also changed the system a little, enabling us to use any critical tables we liked (i.e., Rolemaster tables). Maybe this could be nice for you, too, although our system places a large emphasis on simplicity, and not so much on realism (as opposed to RM).
http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2008/aug/alternateharpcombat1.html

Jan

[kreider204]

Jan:

So, you just make critical rolls on the Arms Law tables?  No need to adjust anything?  I was thinking about doing something like that myself.

[Marc R]

Easy enough to consider must parry stun, and to just add all the forms of stun together into generic HARP stun. That's really the only "Adjustment" needed.

But they don't do enough hits, since in RM hits are mostly on the attack table. . .so you'd probably end up with a system that does loads of stun, kills a lot more people, but rarely ever puts someone down on hits.

[Right Wing Wacko]

I would really like to see an "Arms Law" for HARP. By this I mean attack tables like in the HB system, but with RM crit tables, with separate columns per crit and more variation...
you get the picture.

I love everything about HARP... except the various combat systems. Oh, I'm not saying they are broke or are no good or anything, and I have them all and have used them all, but I really can't find a combat system I'm happy with.

I thought about simply changing HARP armor to RM style and using Arms Law, but I'm not sure what all will need to be modified in Arms Law or in HARP, or even if it's worth it...

[Marc R]

If you switched HARP armors to RM ATs you could use AL with an attack roll, and a crit roll RM style. . .if you're familiar with RM it probably wouldn't work out to be too hard. . .but you'd almost be playing RM at that point. (It would have a more dramatic effect if you started using the SL attack tables)

[Right Wing Wacko]

If you switched HARP armors to RM ATs you could use AL with an attack roll, and a crit roll RM style. . .if you're familiar with RM it probably wouldn't work out to be too hard. . .but you'd almost be playing RM at that point. (It would have a more dramatic effect if you started using the SL attack tables)

That's why I have been reluctant to do so. I do own RMFRP, and often thought about playing that but I'm not sure if my players are really up to it. Another thing, I really like what HARP has done with magic and races/cultures...
I suppose I shall never really be satisfied...

[janpmueller]

Jan:
So, you just make critical rolls on the Arms Law tables?  No need to adjust anything?  I was thinking about doing something like that myself.

That's right. All modification happens elsewhere. Your roll determines (a) the hit points and (b) critical severity (A to E, or -20 to +20 respectively). If you use Arms Law criticals (which has columns for A to E), you just roll for the appropriate letter.
Take a look at the guildcompanion article, all is described in greater detail there.

PS: I just noted that I'm not 100% sure if we talk about the same tables - my fellow GM brought the critical tables, and I'm not certain they are the Arms Law ones. We have a different critical chart for different weapons, and on each there are 5 columns from A to E.

[jolt]

We have a different critical chart for different weapons, and on each there are 5 columns from A to E.

I think you mean different types of weapons.  Tim's still working on the critical charts for each individual weapon (among other things)...well, back to writing my Last Will and Testament.   

jolt

[Right Wing Wacko]

... Tim's still working on the critical charts for each individual weapon (among other things)...
jolt

 
What critical tables for each individual weapon!?
What product is this for!?

[Karizma]

It's for Critical Table Law!

[Right Wing Wacko]

Is it for HARP, RMFRP, or RMC?