Author Topic: Is RMFRP dead ?  (Read 4266 times)

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Offline runequester

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Is RMFRP dead ?
« on: February 21, 2009, 04:35:10 PM »
I dont mean in the sense that people dont play it. Obviously they do, and even if they didn't, I would :)

But it seems the weight from ICE is on Classic. Has FRP played out its lifespan and is just lingering waiting for a new edition to unify the hordes, or are there things waiting out there, to be unveiled in all their glory ?

Offline jolt

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2009, 05:42:11 PM »
It certainly seems that way to me.  FRP was just a re-release of RMSS (some of which can no longer be reprinted and the older material can be expensive to get).  There has been little new material published for it since ICE's rebirth.  And I have trouble believing that a company of ICE's size would actively publish and maintain two versions of the same game.  I don't know what ICE's long-term strategy is so I could be way off.  As you said, no game truly dies as long as people play it but I can't see FLGS's bothering with SS/FRP outside of left over books sitting in the "Old Stuff" section.  That, to me, is a dead game.  YMMV.

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Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2009, 07:25:47 PM »
This is essentially the same question asked shortly after HARP was released.
 ;D

ICE's plan == rebuilding the RM2/RMC player base and then do a RM revision that will hopefully unify both versions of RM. As stated previously, ICE isn't going to even think of revising RM before 2010 (i.e. 2010 is when we will stat considering it, not when we will actually start revising - that comes later).


As for products coming out - we had one planned, but that got back-burnered for a while.

However, if anybody is interested in writing a RMFRP product, or writing articles that could be used in an RM Quarterly issue, then by all means submit them. Visit --> http://www.ironcrown.com/index.php?page=cinfo/write for more information on how to submit.


Offline Sho

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2009, 06:42:24 AM »
It seems to me that Role-playing Games in general are dead, a long time ago indeed... Anyway, U can always play & upgrade them as U wish, and that's great. Till U don't feel like doing it anymore, tho.

Oh, those ol' good times. : )
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Offline runequester

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2009, 12:28:41 PM »
well, RPG's are alive and well. There's stuff coming out all the time.

Its a bit sad that FRP is where it is, as I think its a far better system. But well, ICE knows what they have to do to stay afloat, and if that means Classic, then thats what they should be doing. They are trying to keep a roof over their heads after all.


Offline David Johansen

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2009, 11:53:07 PM »
The problem is that the old ICE didn't change things quite enough to bring the RM2 fans back when they did RMFRP and by extension SPAM.

I think it would have been possible to clean up the character creation to the point where it was easy to drop skill categories if you didn't like them while still being mostly backward compatible.  I think it would be necessary to drop the combined progression in order to do so as that's the main sticking point in a solution where the dps handed out are simply reduced and skills are treated as categories or categories are just ignored.

Offline Temujin

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2009, 12:49:18 AM »
Wasn't there a profession companion, or something like that, announced for RMFRP in 2008 and that was supposed to come out sometime in 2009?  Did that die in the egg?

Offline David Johansen

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2009, 08:33:21 PM »
Tim said the one that was coming has been put on the back burner so I'm guessing that's the Profession Companion.

Oh well, too many professions is one of the faults of RMSS, really.

With ICE looking to start work on RMNEXT in 2010 it seems to me that there's not too much point in moving forward with RMSS support.  Of course, their shift in focus to RM2/C has also had the same effect.  Otherwise I'd have at least done some Guild Companion articles.

Offline Arioch

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2009, 09:06:58 PM »
Oh well, too many professions is one of the faults of RMSS, really.

Of all version of RM, to tell the truth  ;)
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2009, 10:49:19 PM »
I dunno, that was always one of the things I liked about RM... just as anyone could learn anything, anyone could be anything.
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Offline Arioch

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2009, 11:34:07 PM »
I dunno, that was always one of the things I liked about RM... just as anyone could learn anything, anyone could be anything.

My problem with too many professions is that variation among many of them in game terms is really little, usually limited to just a couple of costs or the profession's spell lists. I'd prefer to have less, more flexible professions (or profession templates, like the Channeling Companion pirest) than a lot of slightly different professions.
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2009, 12:25:31 AM »
Well, given that there's no way to predict what setting/culture any particular GM will run his game in, there's likewise no way to predict what professions actually fit his setting/culture. To paraphrase Mark Twain, the difference between the right professions for a setting and nearly right professions for a setting may seem insignificant, but it's the difference between lightning bugs and lightning.
Personally, I consider having just a few archetypal character professions to be the same as forcing every GM to use the same assumptions the game designer used. Game designers are just as human as everyone else, they can't foresee everything. What's the point of leaving a GM the ability to customize his setting if he can't customize professions to fit it?

As an example, at the advent of gunpowder in a culture, there is likely to be some version of a grenadier within a single generation. It's actually not all that big a variant from the standard fighter. And yet if the GM can't create a believable grenadier profession, he has a glaringly obvious hole in what the players can do that FITS with his setting. There will still be standard fighters for several generations after, but the inability to create/play grenadiers makes the believability of his setting just barely fail.

Granted, few settings should have every possible variation available (I'm tempted to say none, but just because I can't imagine it doesn't mean it can't exist). But the game designer's job is to provide the GM with the tools to create the setting he wants, not to decide for him what tools he's allowed to use. Limiting how much the professions can be customized makes no more sense to me than leaving cinnamon and vanilla out of a spice selection because if you put them on steak the result is disgusting.
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Online rdanhenry

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2009, 12:31:20 AM »
There's still every point in doing articles for The Guild Companion. The truth is, most current players are likely to stick with what they are using and buy any new version out of curiosity and to borrow a few ideas from it rather than changing over.

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Offline Arioch

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2009, 01:51:21 AM »
What's the point of leaving a GM the ability to customize his setting if he can't customize professions to fit it?

Right, that's why I said that less flexible professions would be better: this way every GM could customize them to fit his game setting without having to design new ones.
Folllowing your example, given a few base customizable professions, a GM (or a player) could make a grenadier starting from each of them (depending on how he want his grenadier to be), rather than having to make a new "grenadier" profession from a scratch.

I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2009, 08:13:01 AM »
Right, that's why I said that less flexible professions would be better: this way every GM could customize them to fit his game setting without having to design new ones.

Ah, gotcha. It sounds like you and I are saying basically the same thing, but saying it in ways just different enough to misunderstand one another.

 :D
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Offline ToM

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2009, 09:29:05 AM »
Quote
Is RMFRP dead ?

I really hope is not...  :(
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Offline jolt

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2009, 09:54:50 AM »
I prefer to have lots of professions though a TP can make a good substitute for a profession if the differences are minor.  The arguement for fewer flexible professions (or classes or whatever) is the same one people make for classless systems taken one step further.  I'm not a big fan of classless (or very few classes) especially in fantasy where archetypes play an important role (though I admit I'm strongly influenced by the writings of Joseph Campbell in this regard). 

In any case, having few (or no) classes means more work for me when it comes to establishing cultures, guild distinctions and whatnot.  It's a big plus when a game has tons of professions (even if I have to do a little tweaking to them).  Ignoring ones I don't need is a lot easier than having to create everything from a few base options.

If zero to a few classes works for you that's great.  But for me, that means more work for little to no gain.  I'm sure for other people its different but too many professions has never been a problem for me in any version of RM.  As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as too many classes.  YMMV.

jolt
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Offline David Johansen

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2009, 08:28:21 PM »
What I like about RM's professions is that they reward good focused character creation without making maxing one thing out the only effective aproach and penalize the tendancy people have towards being bad at everything.  Why yes I have run a lot of GURPS and HERO.  Why do you ask?

What I dislike about the ever expansive set of professions is simply that they are sloppy and that at some point someone will feel justified in playing a monk, which is never ever justified.
 

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2009, 08:48:07 PM »
My issue with archetypes in general is that it seems to make it difficult, if not impossible, to have a dynamic cultural setting. Say for example that there is a revolution that implements a theocracy, and the new government dictates that all non-Channeling spellcasters are an Abomination Unto The Gods(tm), and must therefore be killed. I'll grant you that there will probably be some form of Essence and Mentalist spellcasters around the fringes, even so. But if all the previous generation is dead or fled and the libraries and schools are all burned, the new ones coming up effectively have no former art on which to draw. Thus the generation of Essence and Mentalist spellcasters that grows up "living in the walls" so to speak will almost certainly be drastically different from the generation that preceded it.
A given set of archetypes that can't really change much effectively locks you into a static culture, and real cultures quite simply aren't static. To be sure, most of the time cultural dynamics works very slowly, and the "drift" is nearly imperceptible, so having the archetypes be static doesn't really affect things much. But if a GM is ambitious enough to want his setting to undergo a paradigm shift while players are in the game, he should have the tools to tell that story just as he would any other story. I'm not sure there is an RPG system anywhere out there that doesn't somewhat hobble the GM when it comes to cultural dynamics. Granted, given the "anyone can learn anything" nature of RM, he's hobbled less in that respect by RM than most. But he's still hobbled.
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Offline markc

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Re: Is RMFRP dead ?
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2009, 10:32:44 PM »
 In my game I do not let players take some professions do to the setting and to what the profession is geared for. Sometimes I even shift some of the numbers around but as GOF said there are no rules in the book to shift and try and keep the PC balanced. So I try and play it by ear and hope everything works out in the end.
 IMO a GM can create custom adol packages for his game but that is a lot of work. I will also have to check and see if it is in GM Law as I use the system that is in RMSS: Talent Law. Yes there are some crazy things in there but IMO it gives a GM a good place to start.
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