Topic: Demon lords and low PP

[black flag]

In the Creatures and Monsters, I seen the PP amonts of the demon lords and I think that theses amounts are too low: 450 pp for Sith (6 PP x 75 th level) and some demons have 8 or 10 or even 13 PP per level...why?

[Dark Schneider]

Because the PP dev. is gradual to less, look at races and realms, you can see 6-5-4-3, so over rank 40 any rank gives 3, half than ranks 1-10.

We don't know demons PP dev., so surely for low ranks it is high bonus and for high ranks is lower bonus, not linear.

[black flag]

No, I'm not agree with You; I think there's a typo; if You look at the Ordainer Moloch: PP 12/ level thus 12x35= 420 PP.
Maleskari has 312 PP for a level 50!
Sith has 450 PP for level 75! (6PP x 75)
Yrrigav has 270 PP for 45 level!
Lords are magically more feebles than their thralls

[Temujin]

Just give them PP multipliers, surely if your PCs face off a lvl 75 being they have some too...

[black flag]

You're right!
Mini 14 PP by levels: they're demon lords, lesser gods kin!

[Arioch]

Imho it's mainly because monsters in C&M come from various sources (old C&T I to III, plus probably some Companion I think) and were made by different people at different times. Add to this that in RM there's no standard rules on how to build a monster and it's easy to figure out the reasons of such differences...

Giving the PP multipliers are a nice solution (I would go for something like x6 to x8... heck, they're demon lords!).

[black flag]

Yes, the catalog is based from various older books, in the stats from old RM2 or his direct offspring RMC the demons Moloch have PP amounts like this:
- Moloch (eh...demi-gods level 35): 5PP/level: 95 PP
- Beyond the Pale (another fallen demi-gods level 50): 6PP/level: 300 PP
- Maleskari (level 50): 6PP/level: 300 PP
- Sith (level 75): 6PP/level: 450 PP
- Yrrigav (level 45): 6PP/level: 270 PP

In RMFRP
- Moloch: 12 PP/level: 420 PP
- Beyond the Pale: 14 PP/level: 700 PP
- Maleskari (level 50): 6PP/level: 300 PP
- Sith (level 75): 6PP/level: 450 PP
- Yrrigav (level 45): 6PP/level: 270 PP
All the three demon lords are the same like in RM2/RMC (I know they don't exist in RMC...for now!)

[Dark Schneider]

Well, with no consideration of multipliers, then make your own estimation for demon race for PP dev., and apply it. It is easy.

In RMSS/RMFRP it is not used the old system PP/lvl, PP dev. is linear to less PP while more level.

In any case, it is not recommended that, if you use the PP/lvl system because it can be more easy to apply (a simple multiplication to estimate the creature PPs based on its level), use more than 7-8 PP/lvl, as in other cases it can be an abuse.

That is for base PP, now it can has spell adders or PP multipliers, or other special considerations (see bellow), but that is another story.

i.e., you can give 'lords' the talents (maybe I don't remember well the names) 'aura' and 'archmage', the 1st gives you +1, 2, 3 or 4 PP per rank dev. and the 2nd makes your PP dev. skill everyman, so the ranks are doubled.

So, for a demon lord with lvl.75, assume that we use a base of 7 PP per lvl for demons, as they are like gods, apply the maximum talents, aura(+4) and archmage, we have a total of: ((7+4)x75)x2=1650 PPs.

See that we apply the major talents if the demon lord is a spell user, if it is more like a warrior type, but with magical powers (it is rare a high lvl demon that can't use spells), we should use others more appropiated, like only the aura(+2), because it surely developed another talents (to have those OBs or HPs). So our warrior-like demon lord could have: (7+2)x75=675 PPs.