Topic: Using HARP Magic in Rolemaster

[sunwolf]

Has anyone tried running RMC using the HARP Magic system.  I'm considering writing up some notes for this and possibly trying it in a Play-by-Post game.  Some of the issues I expect to run into are:

1) No realms thus no Open or Closed lists.  Possible solution: Universal spells replace Open lists.  Casters get to pick 20 spells from sphere as "base" spells, other are "closed"
2) No 1 or 2 PP cost spells except for Cantrips and Counterspell
3) No 25 PP or 50 PP base cost spells although with scaling those levels could be reached.
4) HARP magic system is based on casters having considerably more PP
5) Serious injuries are more easily cured by Magic than in RMC
6) Healer and Lay Healer won't work with HARP magic as written.  Professions would need revamped and likely new spells would need created.
7) No equivalent of semi-spell using Monk.

Any other issues anyone can think of.  Suggested Solutions.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

First off, I think that this is a very neat idea. Here are some comments..

1) In RM, the Open/Closed/Base classifications are there specifically to limit what level a character may learn a list up to. I would suggest putting PP limits on the spells based on how you classify them.

HARP also does not have Hybrid casters, which also affects thing somewhat (IMO, Hybrids and semis are the reason why there are Open & Closed Lists - they provide a limiting factor that Pure spell users do not have. (well, Nons also).

2) Not really a problem, I think.

3) Again, not a problem.... 

4) My suggestion here is to use the Base PP option from Spell Law (gives about 10 extra PP to start with) and the Fast PP regen rules from Express Additions #3 - These two options together solve most of the problems regarding PPs. It also works to keep magic users viable longer without them having to sleep 8 hours just after waking up cause you got in a fight with some monsters.

5) Using the option in RMX, injuries are healed almost as easily, so there wouldn't be that much of a problem.

6) Yes, quite likely.

7) Check out the Mystical Monk stuff in HARPer's Bazaar #8.

[Ecthelion]

HARP uses two second rounds with spell casting needing one round per 5 PP used in a spell. You should think about how to convert this to RM with its 10 second rounds.

[sunwolf]

First off, I think that this is a very neat idea. Here are some comments..

1) In RM, the Open/Closed/Base classifications are there specifically to limit what level a character may learn a list up to. I would suggest putting PP limits on the spells based on how you classify them.

HARP also does not have Hybrid casters, which also affects thing somewhat (IMO, Hybrids and semis are the reason why there are Open & Closed Lists - they provide a limiting factor that Pure spell users do not have. (well, Nons also).

I had been thinking about doing something along the lines of limiting how many ranks could be learned in spells that were Universal and those that would be "Closed" under whatever I define that as.  Not sure on the hybrids, might give them limited access to related spheres (as defined by me).  Could classify HARP spells into realms but would like to avoid that for now as I'm thinking (and hoping) that the spheres will take their place for this experiment.

4) My suggestion here is to use the Base PP option from Spell Law (gives about 10 extra PP to start with) and the Fast PP regen rules from Express Additions #3 - These two options together solve most of the problems regarding PPs. It also works to keep magic users viable longer without them having to sleep 8 hours just after waking up cause you got in a fight with some monsters.

Base PP option check (was thinking that way already)
Fast regen (looks to see if he owns EA#3) check

7) Check out the Mystical Monk stuff in HARPer's Bazaar #8.

Might have to order HARPer's Bazaar #8, I only own the compiliation of the first few.
Say how about another Compendium?

[sunwolf]

HARP uses two second rounds with spell casting needing one round per 5 PP used in a spell. You should think about how to convert this to RM with its 10 second rounds.

Hmm, easy way would be to just ignore the difference in round length and say 5 PP per round.
Better way might be to modify exisiting spell init rules in RMC to work with HARP spells, have to give this one some thought.

[sunwolf]

Thought of another one:
RMC uses spell multipliers and spell adders.  HARP uses PP adders and spell adders.
This one is easy I like PP adders much better than multipliers.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

HARP uses two second rounds with spell casting needing one round per 5 PP used in a spell. You should think about how to convert this to RM with its 10 second rounds.

Hmm, easy way would be to just ignore the difference in round length and say 5 PP per round.
Better way might be to modify exisiting spell init rules in RMC to work with HARP spells, have to give this one some thought.

That is essentially the premise of the article "Irregular Casting Times" in EA #10.

Thought of another one:
RMC uses spell multipliers and spell adders.  HARP uses PP adders and spell adders.
This one is easy I like PP adders much better than multipliers.

If you are using the Fast PP Regen rules from EA#3, then you should to make sure to read the whole article, which includes comments in regards to these devices (i.e. it recommends to NOT use PP Multipliers, and gives examples of 2 types of PP Adders).

[pastaav]

Why not assemble information like this into a RM Express addition (or other suitable format)?

[sunwolf]

9) Counterspell from HARP has no equivalent in RMC.
I would like to include it.  I'm thinking of having the counterspeller roll and look up their result as if it was a Base Spell Attack.  The original speller then needs their casting roll to equal or exceed the RR number generated from the RR chart as modified by the counterspeller's result.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

That should work nicely.

[sunwolf]

I have been working on trying to sort out the spells and decide how to group them.  The following options are under consideration:

1) Using the RMC spell lists as Guidelines make spell lists of HARP spells.  To learn a spell a caster would need to learn spell list up to the correct slot.  Any spell known would be cast at ranks learned in that list and could be scaled accordingly.  This version is closest to standard RMC and a caster would be limited on what rank they could learn a list to depending on whether it was Base, Open, or Closed.  Cantrips might be part of lists, or learned seperately as in HARP.

2) Assign/Construct Spheres for RMC Professions.  Spells learned individually as in HARP.  In this version their would either be no distinction between Pure & Hybrid casters, or Hybrid casters would have smaller spheres than Pure casters but have limited access to closely related spheres.

3) Tech Chart Method.  This is based loosely off of how Technologies are researched in the Civ computer games.  Certain spells would be base starting points.  More advanced spells would require that you learn the pre-requisite spells to a specified rank.  Each Profession would be assigned specific base spells, some of these MIGHT be available to other professions as Advanced spells.  Most Universal spells would be base spells.  As an example of how this would work a Mage might start with Elemental Bolt as a base spell.  If they wanted to learn FireBall (Elemental Ball:Fire) they would first need to learn Elemental Bolt:Fire to rank 8, they might also be able to learn Elemental Resistance:Fire once they have mastered Elemental Bolt:Fire.

Option 1 & 3 are going to be far more work than option 2.  Option 1 is probably the closest to RMC, but maybe is too close and will likely require inventing of many new spells and redesigning several professions.  Option 2 is the closest to HARP as far as spell casting goes.  It might require creating some new spells and redesigning of the Healer type professions.
Option 3 would require determing the relationship of spells and which are basic concepts and which are more advanced.  New spells could be created to flesh things out but wouldn't be essential.  Base spells for each profession would have to be determined.

Looking for feedback on the 3 options to see which one I should concentrate on for now.