Topic: RMFRP - Treasure Companion - Spell Lists

[naphta23]

Hi there.

When I was reading the 5811 Treasure Companion yesterday, I discovered a mistake on page 79 (Channeling Alchemist Base List: Holy Weapons).
In the Special Notes, there are remarks and rules for Armor, Armor Spells and Enchanted Armor.

Since I doubt that this text is the correct one, I'd like to have an alternative that works. Are there rules missing, or has there been a mix-up and I can use the Special Notes of the other Base Lists in that book (Essence & Mentalism) concerning weapons and enchanting weapons?

Thanks for the help! 

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

First thing to remember -- this book is from the old ICE. 

The note on page 79 seem to be a standardized block, one of several different blocks actually.

Use the notes that are on page 81 in place of the notes from page 79.

[naphta23]

Thanks for the help and clarification, Rasyr.

There just turned up another question: how do the Work XXX spells work? What would an alchemist have to do to create a high steel longsword?

First of all, he needs the tools and the materials, that's clear.  But what then? First Work Iron, then Work Hard Iron, after that Make Steel and finally Work High Steel or Work White Alloy for example?

How long does it take? What does it cost? 

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Please remember, this book was written by the old ICE, and that I had no part in it at all. This means that my understanding of it (since I have never really dealt with it) may be a bit fuzzy or even incorrect.

I strongly suggest reading through section 7.4 if you have the RMSS Spell Law - not sure where it might be in the  Of realm books, but it is the section on Alchemist Lists and Item Creation.

Now to answer your question as best I can...

High Steel would be an alloy.

This means that if you already had ingots of the alloy, you would need to use the "Work Steel" spells while crafting the sword (based on the bonus you want to impart).

If you had the ingredients, but the alloy has not been worked/made yet, then you would need to use Make Steel spell (and then use one of the Work Steel spells once the steel is created).

Essentially, you use the "Make xxx" spell to take it from raw materials (such as ore or ingredients for alloys) to usable material, and then use the "Work xxx" spells to craft it into the item you want.

These spells would have to be cast once a day for every day of the construction time. (if you have to use the "Make xxx" spells, I would basically double the production time, half for the Make, and half for the Work.

To determine the base production time, look at the production time column of the equipment lists.

As for cost to make.... take that up with your GM - as that will vary from setting to setting, based upon availability of materials....  (a high steel long sword is going to be cheaper near a dwarven mining town than it would be in a desert town without access to ores).

[Temujin]

I'm willing to take on questions for the RMFRP Treasure Companion since I use it in almost all my RM games lately enough that I know it almost by heart.

To answer your question on Work XXX spells, their main use is for enchanting magical items.  For example, if you are making a highsteel magical sword, you would need both Work High Steel from Inorganic Skills which you were quoting and one of the weapon enchantment spells.

However you seem to be implying creation of a high steel longsword, which I assume is non-magical.  In this case, you do NOT need the creation list.  Refer to the section which deals with the bonuses that non-magical materials of all types give (can't quote page since my book isn't next to me, but its easy to find since its before the enchantment section, and it has a bunch of small tables).  There, you will find the bonus for the material (high Steel is +10nm), the cost multipler (x50 iirc) and the difficulty to the crafting skill.  In other words, a character with Metalcrafts would refer to that table to find out the difficulty for working the metal (which is a separate check than creating the weapon type).

However, if you don't need the spell list to create a non-magical weapon from High Steel, that doesn't mean the spell list is useless if you are doing just that.  Using Work High Steel you can forego the crafting check and know that your non-magical sword will be flawless, which is nice if you're not that accomplished a crafter.  Likewise, Make Steel will be useful if you don't have access to ready-made steel ingots.

One last clarification is that you don't need the multiple spells to work one item.  If you're working an item made out of high steel, you don't need to cast for example Work Iron and Make Steel before casting Work High Steel.  You just need Work High Steel, period, unless once again you don't have the steel made, in which case you would use Make Steel before starting the crafting.  The only time where you genuinely need more than one spell is if you use different materials to compose the same item:  Such as the Wood & Metal weapons, or if you are making a jewelry you might go with Work Base Metal for gold & work gem if you don't have the skills.  And keep in mind that the spells insure that the items are made flawless and capable of being enchanted, but don't substitute themselves for skills if you want your work to have an artistic value.

[naphta23]

A great, big THANK YOU for the help!

[Dark Schneider]

That's right, you need the 'Work' spell to ALLOW enchant the item, IMO the spell should not gives you the skill to automatically create the item and crafts skills should be used.

The 'Make' is to convert the raw material (as you can find it in a mine) to usable material.

I could suggest you some modifications to alchemy rules:

- Don't apply the time modifier for 2nd, 3rd and more magical capacities, if you use it in real play you will see that items with more than 1 capacity are too expensive to create in time and/or too expensive in money. IMO the usual is that an item should have more than 1 magical capacity. i.e. an anti-poison amulet could have bonus to posion RR AND one spell against poison.
- Allow to create items to your players in 'adventure time', for that we use the next rule:

 - Split the alchemy process in 2, create the base item (make and work spells) and enchant it (the other spells).
 - To create the base item you need the tools/laboratory and you can't go adventures, but this process is not too long as are few spells. This allows you to create some 'ready to enchant' base items while you are in resting time, potions is a good example, as they have a x0.25 time mod. and are easy to wear.
- For the enchant process, you ONLY need to cast the spells on item everyday, so you can go adventures but take care as you will have less PPs to use everyday. For any day you don't cast the spells on items (maybe you see you will need all PPs that day) you should ADD 1 day to enchant creation process, not exceeding the original time.

Remember to apply the item time mod. (x0.125, x0.25, x0.5, etc.) in both processes.

- Item prices: after many tries, and using the TC monetary system (using its treasure tables), we conclude that a good price for items is using the next formula: price (sp) = level x level x time, price in silver pieces and time in weeks.
Try it and you will see that is more balanced as you can buy items (are not easy to buy but is possible), original prices are extremely high and with TC treasure system I think you can't buy magical items really.

[markc]

 As to the time issue I use a house rule that lets magical crafters create a socket item like in some MMO games. That way they can make the base item and provide slots for additional abilities later on. Now the magical ability "socket' is very expensive in its own right, also if you have all the material for the sockets right there then it is cheeper. But if you do not have the items it is more expensive. This is important as sometimes there are limits to what can be enchanted with standard materials. IE some abilities require a gem from the heart of a deamon, or a gem bathed in the blood of a giant.

 Also remember that a sword has a few parts, blade, hilt, crosspiece, etc. I am not an expert on swords but in general they enchant the blade. So maybe your GM will let you enchanted the hilt speperatly as well as the other parts.

MD

[naphta23]

After all, I am glad to have ask and very grateful for the competent and quick help! 

Thanks a lot!