Topic: SM2 SM:P - A Beginner's Questions about the Right Blend

[Sekin]

Hey there!

Just recently, I wanted to go back to an old fascination of mine: Spacemaster.
Now, I just realized that I only had the Rulebook for what is known as SM2, as well as Star Strike, which I liked very much. They had been the only items of the Spacemaster series at the local RPG-shop (Germany), and I was told back then (1998) that it was a dead end. Obviously, I bought it anyway, and I am glad I did. 10 years later, I was curious... and here is my plan:

After having read "all" the posts on this site and different reviews about Spacemaster, I have decided to go for the core rules of SM:P, dropping the setting. (If I ever was to use the races of SM:P, I would definitely make the tigers or lions "Predators", but that is someone's personal taste.) I also want to use Star Strike and Armored Assault, which I still have somewhere, dropping the vehicle rules of SM:P.

I want to take the setting from SM2 and mix it with Cyberspace (actually only the technology; net running etc. dropping the dark punk setting), and some own ideas taken from various sources. Maybe even include some Dark Space... Now,

1. is that a good way to go?
2. Besides the skill system, what other differences between SM2 and SM:P are crucial or worth knowing so as to keep track of all that is compatible from SM2?
3. Is not the Companion of the 1st edition included in the SM2 Rulebook, forming the setting and technology section as well as the planet generation part and maybe even more?

It is just that I really want to understand those differences between SM2 and SM:P because there are a lot of people commenting about it, but very often, it just seems to be about their personal opinions and likings on the matter, because they already know the rules and do not have any problems seeing the differences and compatibility. Telling someone like me: Be aware of Part X, you may drop Part Y, Part Z is just the same as in ... 

Thank you already for your advice! And yes, I will have much more beginner's questions as I am reading the core rules of Spacemaster as they are presented in SM:P. 

Sebastian

 

[Dark Mistress]

Mostly it is just personal taste. It is not so much one set of rules is better or worse. The core rules are pretty similar but done differently to reach similar end results. Which is the big reason you see the types of comments you do. That I think most of us have read and played both and house ruled our own games so much. Many of us no longer recall exactly which rule came form which book always.

But if you change the skills to Sm2 then you need to totally redo the training packages for example.

As far as you questions.

1) What ever you enjoy is the way to go. Anything with a little work is workable.
2) I honestly couldn't tell you anymore. I lean mostly towards SM2 with parts of SM:P and house rules but with out go back and rereading the books I wouldn't be able to tell you off the top of my head.
3) I think so but I am not positive. I mean techincally their is SM1 which had a few books and was soon replaced by SM2 I have used both sets of rules together with no noticible difference in them.

[Defendi]

I think you'd have no problem mixing the Rules from SMP with the setting from SM2.  There's even a conversion of some of the races bouncing around.  Maybe even in the SM section of my website (robertjdefendi.com).    You might need to steal all the privateers weapons if you want to use blaster law, but you'd have no problem using Star Strike and all the SM2 ships.

[markc]

Sekin,
 First, welcome to the forums.
 Second, you read all of the posts in this section. Wow you deserve a award or something.
 Thrid, I do not have Cyberspace and I have not even played it so I cannot give you info about merging it with other systems. My advice from here on will be just for mixing SM:P with SM2's Star Strike and Armored Assault.

Now,
1) I think any setting you and your players like is a good idea. I know that is a bit of a cop out but ask your players what they would like or have liked to play in the past. You do not have to give away an major plot lines or important little tid bits, but if you ask IMO it will be easier to design your setting to your players likes and dislikes. [For example I took a pole and non of my future players wanted alien races, they only wanted humans. A big supprise to me.]
2) The skill system and other things: The skill system impacts a lot of things during game play, skill bonus max, OB, DB, level bonus, etc. Other than thoes I do not think thier is a major difference. OOP's I forgot Psionics. In SM2 they treat Psi like they did in thier fantasy games RM2 by lists, in SM:P they have a new system to deal with the Psi talent. the system treats the Psi category ranks as your base power and your ranks in the skill as your dexterity with the power. I personaly like the way SM:P deals with Psi skills and abilities as it is different than the way spells are if I decide to mix fantasy with high tech.
3) I do not know the answer to your question but you might check out a link in the vault to Brent Knorrs website as he has lots of info about the varous editions and whats in them.

 Defindi is right I would download the SM2 races to SM:P skill set doc on his website. It is great.

 If you have any other questions send them along and we will try to help as much as possible with your up coming game.

Good Luck
MDC

[Sekin]

Defindi is right I would download the SM2 races to SM:P skill set doc on his website. It is great.

I am sorry but I did not find any downloads on his site. Do you have a link?

I downloaded a file skill by skill from the ICE webring page, though. Is that the same?

[Sekin]

You might need to steal all the privateers weapons if you want to use blaster law, but you'd have no problem using Star Strike and all the SM2 ships.

Just to clearify that. You mean, if I wanted to use Blaster Law for SM2, I would have to steal SM:P's weapons, but using Star Strike and all the SM2 ships for SM:P would not mean any problems, ...right??! 

[Allen]

I didnt do the original hybryd of SM2 and CyberSpace that I use today, that'd be my buddy Rip.
ut I can tell you that I think they work very well together and it's become almost like second nature to me.  Just dont ask me to explain it!
I dont think that you'll have much or a problem at all integrating the tech from Cyberspace at all.

Allen

[Allen]

I thought that maybe I should clarify a little bit...

I use a mashup of SM2 and CS. I dont use either one's setting.
my world/universe is all of my own making, however highly influenced by my friend Randy who introduced me to the wonderful world of ICE all those years ago.
having said that, I think that if you, or anyone for that matter, spent a little time witht he books it will just come upon you like clarity of how it all will work best for you.
and dont forget all the great people on the forum boards to help too. without them I wouldnt have gotten my latest revision done at all.
Now, everyone will have thier own 'flavor', meaning that everyone's mashup of system will each be a bit different. I do things the way I do because most of it is what I learned back in the day. Now I've come to see that "hey, this makes more sense to me so I'm gonna change this and that."
I really cant explain the how's or why's, but my methods just make sense to me, as yours will make sense to you. Just besure you can explain it to your players.

[Defendi]

Okay, so it doesn't seem to be on my site or in the vault.  Someone has it posted, don't they?

[Defendi]

Sekin, yes that's what I meant, although if you are really doing SM2, you might want to stick with SM2 weapons.  I was talking about the idea of using SMP with the SM2 universe.  If you're using Blaster Law, I'd use weapons from the back (although there might be Silent Death weapons there which would be the same thing as SM2 weapons, just offset a few years).

[ob1knorrb]

Okay, so it doesn't seem to be on my site or in the vault.  Someone has it posted, don't they?

This one?
http://www.icewebring.com/Spacemaster/SilentDeathStuff.pdf

It's buried pretty deep in my site in one of the sections that really needs some reorganization.   I thought it was in the Vault here too, but I guess not.

[Defendi]

THAT's the one.  I looked on your site and everything. 

[ob1knorrb]

You have to go to the Errata page, then the Spacemaster Privateers page, then the SilentDeathStuff.pdf link.  Not exactly intuitive. 

How about redoing it as a Spacemaster Datanet article?  It's been awhile since we've had an issue.

[Allen]

just as a note, Terry's character generator/tracker has these all in it and is jinky too! 
if you're looking to use the SM2 rules, this is somethhing you REALLY want.
it's good stuff for RM2 too.

~A

[Oldgrue]

I thinkits an excellent way to go - the Cyberspace rules are excellent for having a framework to tweak equipment values by.  I don't like CIRS but everyone has their tastes.

[Sekin]

Besides trying to find time to read the rules for SM:P, I was also looking for material for adventures - mostly technology. Therefore, I was looking specifically at Cyberspace, Shadowrun but also material for Star Wars and Ringworld.
However, I realized that most tech stuff is not that ingenious, and designs look out-dated nowadays. I also stumbled over a note on "Technological Overkill" and "power gaming". That made me think that the most important part of RPG really is your PLOT. Everything else, be it tech in SFRP or all the fantasy equivalents in Fantasy RP, is just part of the spectacle; important, but still just part of the spectacle.

What we really like about our favourit SF/Fantasy books or movies has always been the plot, and the uncertainty of not knowing exactly or not knowing at all what is going to happen next. YES, all the technology of Star Wars was really exciting, but Matrix used only a tiny percentage of the technological advancement, and still was just excellent- the first part at least. In Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit we actually do not exactly see  much magic at work (not at all...), but still Tolkien is one of the best storytellers ever.

Why am I writing this? Maybe because it is one o'clock in the morning and I should go to bed, but mostly because I am looking for great plot ideas... 

I just want to avoid typical plots like: go to A and get B, take out C on the way... My gaming experience is limited, but so is my time to spend on it, now.

--------->So, I am probably really just looking for some great plots - besides reading Asimov, Niven, Piper, Drake and others - ... and actually just want to get inspired.

I have the old adventure for Spacemaster ... "The Cygnus Conspiracy". Even though the plots or better the tasks are not as profound it is but a tool of inspiration to create more profound ones. With all the setting and background information of SM2 (Not to beat a dead horse...)

-----------> Thing is sometimes you read a title or the beginning of one of the adventures and you are all for it, but then it kind of gets lame, because you have seen it so many times over on TV. That is probably the right moment you should go back to this instant when all kinds of strings for a great plot opened up in your imagination, and you are just so excited to see which was the right one. Obviously, that does not happen, because usually it is one that you are already familiar with  from so many other occasions... okay, okay, bed time now!! 
 

[Sekin]

Goodness, it looked so much smaller in the Quick Reply box. 

[markc]

 There are some SM2 adventures for sale as PDF's in the ICE store and the scans are very well done.

 As you said the bigest thing is going to be your plot and that will define everything else. It will define your equipment, tech tree, number of worlds, space ship tech, psy skills etc.

MDC