Topic: New Rolemaster

[gandalf970]

I have been playing Rolemaster for many years and check the boards from time to time.  I remember a while back there was talk of another version of Rolemaster coming out.  Is this still being talked about or is there actualy work being put into it.  Is HARP the new RM or are we going to see something else.

[David Johansen]

My understanding is not until after 2010.  There's been much discussion of the project and a lot of thought about what it should look like.  The Combat Companion will likely be the basis for the new Arms Law.  There will probably be a three tiered skill system.  On the whole, Tim's leaning towards a tool-kit set-up the last I heard. 

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Correct, I WANT to do a new version of Rolemaster, but it was determined that before we did a new version, we needed to recapture the old RM2 crowd, to help build our customer base to the point where we can survive a major revision. 2010 is when ICE will likely revisit the idea and start actually working on a revision (of course, that doesn't stop me from thinking about it, and occasionally doing polls or asking leading questions to help me make better plans for when we do begin official work on it...)


Some of the things I want to do or see for the new version include the following (note: nothing here is set in stone!!!):

• Increased usage of the actual stats (i.e. currently stats are mainly used to determine bonus/dp -- and stats will be staying)
• Make stats be more uniform -- for example both a dragon and a human can have a strength of 95, instead of racial bonuses to the mods, make them to the stats - - i.e. a dragon has a strength of 450, a human of 95
• Separate DPs from the stats -- this would make it easier for different campaign styles, a low powered game could use less DP, a high powered game would use more.
• Skills -- yes, 3 tiers -- each tier would have a different number of skills, and be easily convertible to the other tiers (i.e. interchangable) to allow for different styles of play.
• Combat -- Combat Companion is a good direction for a starting point. It resolves many of the issues that folks have with Arms Law, and it allows for expansion and versatility in armor rules without too many problems
• Magic -- personally, I like the idea of lists of scalable (and sometimes non-scalable spells - along the lines (the idea does need more development!!) of  what I posted here -- http://www.wizlair.net/news.php?extend.41

As I said above, nothing is set in stone.

And David is correct in that the current thinking is that the next version should be more of a toolkit for the core rule books, with us producing and releasing a setting and rules combined in a single book, that gives our "house rules" that we will use in releasing adventures and such.

[twh]

• Increased usage of the actual stats (i.e. currently stats are mainly used to determine bonus/dp -- and stats will be staying)

...

• Separate DPs from the stats -- this would make it easier for different campaign styles, a low powered game could use less DP, a high powered game would use more.

And possibly trim the stat list to those more directly used in play?

• Make stats be more uniform -- for example both a dragon and a human can have a strength of 95, instead of racial bonuses to the mods, make them to the stats - - i.e. a dragon has a strength of 450, a human of 95

BINGO!  In my own idea of a perfect system, all stats have a range that encompasses all creatures.  Everyone and everything is measured the same.  Have an idea point, sir.

[vroomfogle]

If you make racial mods simply add to the stats there are a couple side effects, and it makes for a circular chain of logic.

First, you must lose the bell shaped curve of the stat (because the bell shape needs to be retained for each racial population, if all populations are on a single scale....).   Now, since you've lost the curve you must come up with a new method of actually generating the stats (either through rolling multiple dice or a table) to conform to a bell curve.   Second, since stats would now be linear, the actual stat # actually serves no purpose whatsoever and so you might as well drop the stat and use the bonus.    Ok, so now that you are using the bonus and your racial mod is now adding directly to that then you have the same system as you do now (because you still need that table to generate the initial stat).....the only difference being is that you roll on the table to get your "stat" but you don't record that actual roll (which is the stat in the current 1-100 system), just the resulting bonus.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

The above was just my wish list -- and as I said, nothing is set in stone, nor did I say the ideas were perfect (most likely they are far from perfect since no development work has been done  ).

In regards to the stats issue, there are a couple of points.

1) PC races could still quite easily be part of a curve like they are now. It is only the low-end and high-end creatures that would maybe end up not being part of a bell curve. But since the idea has not been fully and effectively developed yet, it is difficult to know for sure.

2) ICE won't get rid of the stats (I already lost that argument a long time ago  ), hence the comment about making the stats themselves more important and used for things other than just determining bonuses.

[Arioch]

2) ICE won't get rid of the stats (I already lost that argument a long time ago  ), hence the comment about making the stats themselves more important and used for things other than just determining bonuses.

Any idea on how they could be made more important?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Any idea on how they could be made more important?

At this point, since I have not given it any serious thought, only a few vague notions, but the general idea is that it may require creating or redefining some "Figured Characteristics" (i.e. things that cannot usually be increased through skills but are based on the stats) for the stats, in addition to the bonuses that are applied to stats.

[Fenrhyl Wulfson]

You could apply the strength bonus to :

bow and crossbow reloading (assuming the crossbow is not mechanically reloaded)
thrown weapon range
hand to hand damage (be it striking or wrestling)

Just a few ideas I thought about some time ago. All in all stats are pretty usefull in RM, since they intervene in skills, resistances, defense, and pace. I suppose a bit of brainstorming could uncover now possibilities.

[Dax]

You could apply the strength bonus to :

thrown weapon range

Yes, thought of this myself.

But couldn't imagine how to get rid of stats (in RM).

I remember a while back there was talk of another version of Rolemaster coming out.

But perhaps you remember talking about RMC ?
The revision was never to be "coming out" in the near future ...

[dutch206]

Magic -- personally, I like the idea of lists of scalable (and sometimes non-scalable spells - along the lines (the idea does need more development!!) of  what I posted here -- http://www.wizlair.net/news.php?extend.41

I can't get this link to work.  My screen freezes at 50% and refuses to load the page.

[markc]

Rasyr,
 I thought the way you talk about having so much time on your hands in the past that you actually finished the new RM back in the early 90's.

MDC

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Magic -- personally, I like the idea of lists of scalable (and sometimes non-scalable spells - along the lines (the idea does need more development!!) of  what I posted here -- http://www.wizlair.net/news.php?extend.41

I can't get this link to work.  My screen freezes at 50% and refuses to load the page.

Then try again a little later. My host isn't the best. 

[smug]

Ah, stats, my main concern with Rolemaster.

I don't like the idea of separating stats from DPs, although I'd be happy if there were different stats involved in providing DPs (and maybe emphasise Memory and Reasoning plus make Intuition a development stat in place of Agility); I'd prefer the game power variable to be reflected in a multiplier.

Oh, and I still want Empathy gone and I remain unhappy about Presence being the power stat for mentalism (I'd prefer Reasoning or Self Discipline).

For spells, I like the current system; scalable is also good in principle, but I'm not sure that it's Rolemaster (in the same way that I think that D&D 4e isn't really D&D). It sounds like the suggested system and the current system are too different for both to be there as options, however, in core (I guess you could release one in an alternate Spell Law, but that's creating a huge divide between the two sub-games).

[dutch206]

Rasyr, Why didn't you just say "Like the magic system in HARP".  I would have understood what you were talking about immediately.

I like this idea a lot.  It gives magic more flexibility and control.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Well, it isn't just like HARP, it is more of a combo/mix of the two. 

[GoblynByte]

And David is correct in that the current thinking is that the next version should be more of a toolkit for the core rule books, with us producing and releasing a setting and rules combined in a single book, that gives our "house rules" that we will use in releasing adventures and such.

Hmmm...this is interesting but I'm not quite sure what you mean.  Could you please expand on what you mean by this potential concept?

[markc]

GoblinBute,
 I think the idea is that each core section has a lot of customizable rules that a GM can pick and chose from to creat his own unique RPG enviroment.

MDC

[Justin]

• Separate DPs from the stats -- this would make it easier for different campaign styles, a low powered game could use less DP, a high powered game would use more.
• Skills -- yes, 3 tiers -- each tier would have a different number of skills, and be easily convertible to the other tiers (i.e. interchangable) to allow for different styles of play.

I for one like that DP come from stats and specifically the stats they come from. I see a nice balance btwn ST/Prime and DP-stats; if you go for many DP, your atks/PP will be low; go for powerful atks/many PP, your DP will be few. This assumes you don't use PP development, which I don't, and assumes the player doesn't happen to roll a bunch of 80+.

The tiered skill systems and their interchangeablity( ) is what I have been considering posting to the "How to make RM better" thread. Love that it's being considered!

One negative: Finally reading this thread and finding out that there is a revision possibly in the works makes me reconsider buying RMC.   .....Who am I kidding, no it doesn't!!

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Remember -- at least 2 more years before we even consider starting a revision.. And then you have from 1-2 years for the actual revision itself, IF we do start it then.... hehe

I for one like that DP come from stats and specifically the stats they come from. I see a nice balance btwn ST/Prime and DP-stats; if you go for many DP, your atks/PP will be low; go for powerful atks/many PP, your DP will be few. This assumes you don't use PP development, which I don't, and assumes the player doesn't happen to roll a bunch of 80+.

huh? You started off talking about Development Points and ended up talking about Power Points.... I is confuzed....

But for the revision, the idea would be no Power Point Development skill, you get xx points per level (everybody does, even non-spell users), and spell users get a bonus amount to start with (like 10 or 15, perhaps base this on a stat). Power Points would basically use the Fast PP Regen rules (from one of the EAs) -- thus making them more viable overall, and eliminating the need to PP multipliers at first level.

Combat would likely use something like what is in CC.