Topic: Knight Profession?

[Nejira]

Toying with an campaign idea where the players are gonna play knights. Are there a Knight Profession to be found, maybe in Castles n Ruins?

[Ecthelion]

A profession with that name does not exist. But you might use the Fighter or Paladin profession in conjunction with the Knight Training Package.

[Nejira]

Ah, thanks. Any idea of what guidelines to follow when making a new profession? From what I can tell all have a total of +50 bonus to skills, but other than that?

[Ecthelion]

AFAIK no guidelines exist. Personally I wouldn't create a new profession, at least not for a Knight. For such variants of existing professions IMO an existing profession plus a Training Package is sufficient.

[Defendi]

I agree.  The first stepping is asking "Why do I need a new profession."  I can't think of an answer for knight other than, "you don't."

[dutch206]

RMSS/FRP contains a training package for the Knight.  Just use it.  Why re-invent the wheel?

If you want realistic knights, use the Fighter profession.  If you want a more Charlemagne/Arthurian feel, use the Paladin.  Plate Mail and Full Shield; Sword, Axe, or Mace; Spear or Lance.  Add water, mix until combined and bake at 350 degrees F for 50-55 minutes.  Let rest for 10 minutes before unmolding. 

[Fenrhyl Wulfson]

"Knight" is not a profession, it is a social status.

The knights were professional fighters who had responsibilities in the religious domain (they defended the christian and expanded the christian faith) and a social position : enforcers of the law, military leaders, regional administrators,  responsible of the police and so on...

If you want to put knigths in your setting, just ask yourself if your setting permit them to exist.

Historically, the knights were inheritors of the paladins tradition (paladins were palace officers and bodyguards in caroligian and merovingian franks society, they acquired their reputations of "holy warriors" by defeating the muslims in seveal occasions (Toulouse, Poitiers, Narbonne) and crushing the saxons repeatedly (ending by an horrible slaughter of civilians).

A knight has obligations :

He is among the lowest ranking nobles in the feudal system and he owes duty to his liege (a higher ranking knight or a landed noble, like a baron, a marquess, a count or a duke, more rarely he is the man of a king) : he must obey his orders and remain loyal. In return, his liege must protect and feed him, maybe even give him weapons, horse and armour.
He can't marry withoput his liege's blessing, nor can he leave his liege's land without his authorization. In return, he has the same power upon his men, be they serfs, men-at-arms or sergeants.
He must protect his liege and his men to the cot of his life, in return his liege and his men must feed an protect him if need be.
He must enforce the law (be it religious, edicted by the king or local... all of these at the same time), hunt down criminals and denfed widows and orphans (that is against rape, slavery or arson).
And a lot more that I can't remember :p

All in all, I can't understand how a player may want to be a knight :p

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Ah, thanks. Any idea of what guidelines to follow when making a new profession? From what I can tell all have a total of +50 bonus to skills, but other than that?

AFAIK no guidelines exist. Personally I wouldn't create a new profession, at least not for a Knight. For such variants of existing professions IMO an existing profession plus a Training Package is sufficient.

ahem...  http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/1999/mar/realms.html

Though seriously, a Knight usually is just a Fighter with the Knight TP on it... (and a background option that says that they are nobility most likely)

[markc]

 I agee with what others have said above. Knights are a social status or a title given out for deeds or by bithright.

 Now if you are asking what type of skills a knight would have it would depend on the setting or time peroid. The way I would go about it is to create a series training package for each "training" season or year that a PC could buy. [TP's give a 25% discount on skills and there is a program in the vault that can help automate the process.]
 Also in historic examples some knight's started traning at 11-13 as squires or wards of other nobles. So they might start with basic weapon traning, horsmanship, careing and feeding of the aminals, caring and up keep of armor and weapons, tactics, how to govern a land, lore: religon, etc. Looking at historical examples you can look at knights in Europe [England, France, Spain, Germany], knights in Aribia, Mongol warriors, Sammari's, etc. There are a lot of other examples out there from fantasy, such as knights who ride dragons, gaint birds, griffins, marine animals, elvish knights, dwarvish knights, etc. You can also specialise the knightly orders like they did in the middle ages or schools in Japan and China. Some specialsie in tending wounded, protecting travellers, building castles, taiming the land, bring religon to reigons, etc.
 
 Also if that is the campaign  you want to run maybe the GM will start you at higher level then 1st or give you extra DP's to spend for adolesence and apprentiship periods. For a begining knight I might start them at 5th level or higher if they are part of an order or a full fledged member. If they start at a lower level I would have them be a knight in training [kit's] and have them work there way up to being a full fledged member.

 If you are looking for more info please post what your campaign world is like or even some of the TP's you create so others can comment on them. Also a knight in general as I said above knows a lot of other skills besides the basics of weapons, armor, horsemanship etc. 

MDC

[Nejira]

Well its for Echoes of Heaven, I was thinking the players would be members of a local lord?s household (knights, children or such). Then build up the story/campaign from there with plenty of local mischief, intrique, romance, and so forth. Partially based on my own ideas and what the players brings to the table.

I think I will use the TP and let them select a profession based on the "type" of knight they wish to portrait.

[Defendi]

So pretty straight-up medieval knights.  I'd recommend Life in a Medieval Castle, in general. 

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

In the Deverry setting by Katherine Kerr, each Lord has a warband, but the members of the warband usually aren't noble themselves (unless they are the captain of a great lord's or king's warband).

The warbands, when fighting, usually fought while mounted just like normal feudal knights (though chain is the normal armor for this setting, no plate).

[Nejira]

Code: [Select]

pretty straight-up medieval knightsYep, pretty much.

[yammahoper]

"Knight" is not a profession, it is a social status.

The knights were professional fighters who had responsibilities in the religious domain (they defended the christian and expanded the christian faith) and a social position : enforcers of the law, military leaders, regional administrators,  responsible of the police and so on...

If you want to put knigths in your setting, just ask yourself if your setting permit them to exist.

Historically, the knights were inheritors of the paladins tradition (paladins were palace officers and bodyguards in caroligian and merovingian franks society, they acquired their reputations of "holy warriors" by defeating the muslims in seveal occasions (Toulouse, Poitiers, Narbonne) and crushing the saxons repeatedly (ending by an horrible slaughter of civilians).

A knight has obligations :

He is among the lowest ranking nobles in the feudal system and he owes duty to his liege (a higher ranking knight or a landed noble, like a baron, a marquess, a count or a duke, more rarely he is the man of a king) : he must obey his orders and remain loyal. In return, his liege must protect and feed him, maybe even give him weapons, horse and armour.
He can't marry withoput his liege's blessing, nor can he leave his liege's land without his authorization. In return, he has the same power upon his men, be they serfs, men-at-arms or sergeants.
He must protect his liege and his men to the cot of his life, in return his liege and his men must feed an protect him if need be.
He must enforce the law (be it religious, edicted by the king or local... all of these at the same time), hunt down criminals and denfed widows and orphans (that is against rape, slavery or arson).
And a lot more that I can't remember :p

All in all, I can't understand how a player may want to be a knight :p

I agree with the above.  Social talents and flaws added to a normal fighter best represent a knight.

As for skill requirements, that depends on setting.  In a kingdom with peace, social skills such as dancing and diplomacy will become important.  In a land constantly at war, the simple ability to fight will serve.

lynn

[Defendi]

Chain is probably the default in Echoes as well.  At least in RM and HARP.    There's plate, but a lot of knights can't afford it. 

[David Johansen]

There's a Cavalier training package in Castles and Ruins that gives a much broader and more detailed set of skills for a more historical knight.

[Dark Schneider]

A knight is a type of fighter, so you use fighter with some TPs and talents...and you have it!.

[markc]

Dark,
 I think that is one of the good things about RM that the term "fighter" is generic. I can have a spell caster that is as good a "fighter" as the fighter profession or maybe even a crazy mage that dumps almost all of his DP into weapon skills.

 In the past I have talked with players about not knowing thier profession and them just spending out some time figuring out what profession they actually were. So they would take some classes and see how easy it was to learn the skills being taught. Some liked it but most did not.
 We also had some good discussions about playing a everyone a "layman" profession and I think that would have been our next campaign or a campaign offshoot. a campaign generally lasted 2 years or so. So we did not change game concepts that often.

MDC

[Langthorne]

Although Fighter or Paladin are obvious profession choices, the only limit on profession would be your scenario. An Armsmaster or Cleric could work well too (maybe even a 'hybrid' cleric from the Channeling Companion).

The 'Knighted' talent and 'Chivalrous' flaw might also be appropriate.

[Joshua24601]

I agree with the above, that a fighter with TP's is the way to go...

But if a GM were to decide that creating a new profession was the way he wanted to go... What differences would you guys see between the generic fighter and a knight?

-I believe a knight would be in more socialized (at least with the higher classes) then the average fighter, this could mean a skill bonus to specific influence skills or a decrease in the price from 2/7 to 2/5 or something like that..

-Similarly the price for Communications could go down.. perhaps an unusual 2/3/3?

-Knights might be less out door'sy then the usual fighter and suffer a cost increase in Outdoor-environmental.  In fact Outdoor-animal could go up.. a LOT as well.  Knights rarely care for their own animals... the only skill in the Outdoor-animal cat. that knights would usually use is riding, and since they otherwise ignore animals (aside from killing them) it makes sense for it to be more expensive.

-Subterfuge skills could be increased even further in price.

-Weapon skills could be less diversified, increasing the costs for categories 4-7

Any other thoughts?
... As I stated at the beginning I'd just go with a regular fighter and diversify by selecting different training packages, there are a number of good ones is Castles... One of the Knight PC's might not even get the Knight TP... favoring less common knight skills from a different TP, and the padding out the necessary knowledge skills.