Topic: Adolescent skills & ChCo questions

[Phil]

I've been on the SilentTower email list for years, but this is my first fotay into the forum in its new guise, so be gentle...

After a long hiatus, I'm back to revising my RMFRP chargen spreadsheet and had a couple of questions about Adolescent Hobby progressions:

1. Does anyone use the rule that weapon skills allocated at Adolescent skills must be from the cultural weapons

2. Has anyone noticed that Woodman has cultural skill of PoleArm but no cultural polearms listed?!

3. Hobby Skills: RMFRP p18 "hobby ranks may be used to increase the ranks of any combination of skills and/or skill categories." RMFRP Cultures then list "Standard Hobby Skills" - should this be interpreted restrictively as per cultural weapons (i.e. these skills and none others without good excuse to the GM) or merely as a guide?

4. Can characters develop Closed Lists as Hobby Ranks? - I can see that they might be able to, although I'm nervous about this.

5. Can characters develop Base Lists as Hobby Ranks? - I'm thinking they shouldn't, because by definition they haven't actually joined that profession until they enter the Apprenticeship phase of character generation.

6. I can't find any official comment about how restricted, everyman and occupational skills "stack", which makes me assume they don't - for example, a dwarf with racially restricted Swimming that became a Pearl Diver (a fictional campaign-specific occupation with Swimming as Everyman!) would become Everyman in Swimming, rather than R+E = normal? Similarly, a High Elf layman would actually be no better in his "specialist" craft than any other High Elf?

Finally, an observation on Channeling Companion. Speciality Priests are out of sync with other professions in terms of Everyman skills. Absurdly so. More than 1 speciality priest, for example, has all Outdoor Environmental skills at E. Compare that to the Ranger who has none. I'd be interested to see if anyone else has noticed this and whether it's been an issue. (and btw I also hate the fact that there is a section on the rules for rituals that basically says "use the rules in Essence Companion except for the following changes" - that's a cheap shot, especially when that book hasn't even been published for RMFRP)

[Arioch]

1. I let the players put their adolescent weapon ranks in any weapon they want.
2. No. 
3. I use it simply as a guideline
4/5. I would discourage that. Usually I don't let develop any spell list using Hobby Ranks
6. According to rolemaster rulings: "Profession classifications take precedence over race and culture
classifications, race and culture classifications take precendence over skill description classifications".
So a dwarf will always have swimming as a Restricted skill.
See: http://www.icewebring.com/errata/rolemaster-rulings/#Character

For Channeling companion, remember that speciality priest in the book are just examples, you should make your spec. priests for your own setting.

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

I've been on the SilentTower email list for years, but this is my first fotay into the forum in its new guise, so be gentle...

After a long hiatus, I'm back to revising my RMFRP chargen spreadsheet and had a couple of questions about Adolescent Hobby progressions:

1. Does anyone use the rule that weapon skills allocated at Adolescent skills must be from the cultural weapons
2. Has anyone noticed that Woodman has cultural skill of PoleArm but no cultural polearms listed?!
3. Hobby Skills: RMFRP p18 "hobby ranks may be used to increase the ranks of any combination of skills and/or skill categories." RMFRP Cultures then list "Standard Hobby Skills" - should this be interpreted restrictively as per cultural weapons (i.e. these skills and none others without good excuse to the GM) or merely as a guide?

The Woodman omission in the suggested hobby skill ranks is likely just a mistake. It will do no harm to allow them to learn spear skill. The hobby skill rank suggestions are suggestions and a fall-back position for GMs so that they can disallow attempts by players to propose ludicrous hobbies for their characters.

4. Can characters develop Closed Lists as Hobby Ranks? - I can see that they might be able to, although I'm nervous about this.
5. Can characters develop Base Lists as Hobby Ranks? - I'm thinking they shouldn't, because by definition they haven't actually joined that profession until they enter the Apprenticeship phase of character generation.

Open spell lists would be fine as "hobbies", but Closed or Base really need a greater degree of commitment. Just say no.

6. I can't find any official comment about how restricted, everyman and occupational skills "stack", which makes me assume they don't - for example, a dwarf with racially restricted Swimming that became a Pearl Diver (a fictional campaign-specific occupation with Swimming as Everyman!) would become Everyman in Swimming, rather than R+E = normal? Similarly, a High Elf layman would actually be no better in his "specialist" craft than any other High Elf?

You can either use the official ruling or apply a more commonsense approach that averages the steps in profession/race/culture conflicts, so Restricted & Everyman equals Normal.

Finally, an observation on Channeling Companion. Speciality Priests are out of sync with other professions in terms of Everyman skills. Absurdly so. More than 1 speciality priest, for example, has all Outdoor Environmental skills at E. Compare that to the Ranger who has none. I'd be interested to see if anyone else has noticed this and whether it's been an issue. (and btw I also hate the fact that there is a section on the rules for rituals that basically says "use the rules in Essence Companion except for the following changes" - that's a cheap shot, especially when that book hasn't even been published for RMFRP)

As far as I am aware the only difference between Channeling Companion in RMFRP and RMSS is trade dress. Channeling Companion was written for RMSS when Essence Companion was available. If you have a RMSS Essence Companion you can use it as-is with RMFRP Channeling Companion. If you don't and you would like one, you can buy a pdf version from guild.ironcrown.com

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[Ecthelion]

I've been on the SilentTower email list for years, but this is my first fotay into the forum in its new guise, so be gentle...

After a long hiatus, I'm back to revising my RMFRP chargen spreadsheet and had a couple of questions about Adolescent Hobby progressions:

1. Does anyone use the rule that weapon skills allocated at Adolescent skills must be from the cultural weapons

IMO it is not so much a strict rule but more a suggestion of typical weapons. The short answer is No, we don't use it in my group.

2. Has anyone noticed that Woodman has cultural skill of PoleArm but no cultural polearms listed?!

No, but I think that is not a problem.

3. Hobby Skills: RMFRP p18 "hobby ranks may be used to increase the ranks of any combination of skills and/or skill categories." RMFRP Cultures then list "Standard Hobby Skills" - should this be interpreted restrictively as per cultural weapons (i.e. these skills and none others without good excuse to the GM) or merely as a guide?

We interpret it only as a guideline.

4. Can characters develop Closed Lists as Hobby Ranks? - I can see that they might be able to, although I'm nervous about this.

Per the rules the answer is yes, as long as the cost for the given profession is less the 40 DPs (i.e. a Fighter won't be able to do this). But if you'd rather not like to see this for your group, then do your own ruling and forbid this.

5. Can characters develop Base Lists as Hobby Ranks? - I'm thinking they shouldn't, because by definition they haven't actually joined that profession until they enter the Apprenticeship phase of character generation.

Do we have to draw such a strict line between adolescence and apprenticeship phase? We do allow Base Lists to be developed as Hobby Ranks.

(and btw I also hate the fact that there is a section on the rules for rituals that basically says "use the rules in Essence Companion except for the following changes" - that's a cheap shot, especially when that book hasn't even been published for RMFRP)

At the time when Channeling Companion was printed this was not so problematic. Nowadays I wish that part would be updated.

[Phil]

Thanks on the comments - confirmed my suspicions that "canon" is less affirmative in RM than many games, which can only be a good thing. Although makes updating my spreadsheet to be all things to all people that little bit harder

[pastaav]

Welcome to the forum.

1. Does anyone use the rule that weapon skills allocated at Adolescent skills must be from the cultural weapons

I don't, we only use them as guidelines.

4. Can characters develop Closed Lists as Hobby Ranks? - I can see that they might be able to, although I'm nervous about this.

I would not allow it. Yet by rules alone this should be possible provided the total cost for all ranks purchased in the list is at most 40 DP.

5. Can characters develop Base Lists as Hobby Ranks? - I'm thinking they shouldn't, because by definition they haven't actually joined that profession until they enter the Apprenticeship phase of character generation.

I would not allow it since the Hobby ranks detail what they did earlier than apprenticeship.

Finally, an observation on Channeling Companion. Speciality Priests are out of sync with other professions in terms of Everyman skills. Absurdly so. More than 1 speciality priest, for example, has all Outdoor Environmental skills at E. Compare that to the Ranger who has none.

I think the example was written with the assumption that everyman skill works like in the first edition of RMSS where did cut the DP cost in half. Using RMFRP or more recent versions of RMSS I would change it ot be choice of one everyman skill in outdoor environmental category isntead of everyman for all skills in the category.

[markc]

Welcom,

IMO first it is your game so do what you want but be aware of the consequences.

 Professions) IMO professions are just genetic templates not jobs or "professions".

 Hobby Ranks) I tend to keep a good hold on hobby ranks but then I redesign the "adol" packages.

 Pole Arm) I do not have my books on this computer so I can not give you an example as above.

 General Note on Programs for RMSS/FRP) IMO what ever you do design it so a GM can change every thing from professinon costs for skills to skill rank bonuses. A lot of RM GM's change a lot of things for thier game.

MDC

[Phil]

General Note on Programs for RMSS/FRP) IMO what ever you do design it so a GM can change every thing from professinon costs for skills to skill rank bonuses. A lot of RM GM's change a lot of things for thier game.

Amen to that - one of the reasons I'm making my own sheet rather than using the many excellent ones already out there. Am trying to build in flexibility to add professions and races, add/remove skills and categories, move skills from one category to another (e.g. Mentalism Companion moving signaling to Tech/Trade-Voc), and so forth. And have also decided to give a range of tick-box options, e.g. to rigidly enforce Cultural Weapons and Hobby Skills, how R/E/O categorisations interact, whether to use racial or generic BD/PP development, to restrict Hobby Spell ranks to open or open/closed, etc.

And trying to do it all without using any macros. Just for the sake of security/user-friendliness/anti-paranoia. 

But, bugger me, doesn't that just make everything so much more complicated   

[Phil]

As far as I am aware the only difference between Channeling Companion in RMFRP and RMSS is trade dress. Channeling Companion was written for RMSS when Essence Companion was available. If you have a RMSS Essence Companion you can use it as-is with RMFRP Channeling Companion. If you don't and you would like one, you can buy a pdf version from guild.ironcrown.com

Dammit if you didn't just lead me astray, with lovely new PDFs of Essence Companion & Castles & Ruins now joining my recently purchased PDFs of ArL, Armory, F&I, F&I-A and MenCo. Why oh why hasn't EssCo had a proper RMFRP reprint? It's a lovely piece of work, doing much to reinvigorate Essence magic for the ArsMagica generation

Now if only there was a PDF available for SoHK - then I wouldn't be so annoyed that I seem to have mislaid my copy (although searching through the old archives of gaming material did reveal that I owned a hitherto unread Treasure Law, so it's an ill wind that blows nobody some good quality geekery....)

[yammahoper]

(although searching through the old archives of gaming material did reveal that I owned a hitherto unread Treasure Law, so it's an ill wind that blows nobody some good quality geekery....)

That was beautiful.  Still chuckling

lynn

[rafmeister]

     Yes, I often restrict characters to cultural skills. I also have woodmen take spear as their polearm choice.

[markc]

 Phlid,
 I would love to see it when it is done. And I am also looking for a program to combine SM:P and RMSS elements for a combo setting or a using setting like Shadowrun.

MDC