Topic: Enchanted Items

[mocking bird]

It is true that magical items are very oriented to combat, in TC we see many effects for spells to create weapons and armors, and few for other magical effects. Special section for 'weapon #' and 'armor #' spells but not for 'general #' spells.
 

But, how about bonus to BAR (many users want it!), increase the casting level (so you can cast spells greater lvl than yourself with no SCSM and with more duration, etc.), store capacity (like magical staff), etc.?. Nowadays we only can imbedding spells that user doesn't have (or can't have) to expand its casting skills.

These are from the 'benifit from magical item thread'.

Several threads are currently up and running regarding spell mastery and magic items.  This touches on item enchantment. 

There are specific examples given in the TC for weapon and armor abilities and what level spell is needed for them.  There are also multiple examples of items that have 'suped up' spells with extended range, damage multipliers or require an RR well above the default casting level.  However, as mentioned, there is no corresponding spell modification list.

So, how do you go about enchanting 'upgraded' spells?

[Marc R]

I would suspect, drawn from the AC, that those pre-suppose RM2 usage.

So to get a 6th level bolt x2 hits, you need to cast it with 12pp, so it's 12th level.

I really have no idea how you'd go about that in RMFRP.

Anyone remember yet which RM Companion had the complete rules, with PP cost to stack damage, range, AoE and duration multipliers? (A few of us recall it, nobody has yet identified which book.)

[Marc R]

I searched the AC, it has a lot of costs for modifying range, damage, ESF, etc, but not really levels.

There's a note in the AC on "Spell Mastery" that states that if the GM charges variable PP to reflect modification of spell effects, that the skill be purchased once, applying to all spellcasting in general. learn something new every day.

[Balhirath]

It's far easier to use Spirit-runes
Then you do have a level for anything, a system for how to make spells give more damage, most spells can be placed in the item and if you regret giving the Item to the players, it is possible to disspell it 
(Originally Spirit Runes was a Magus spell list, but I have removed it, since I felt that it made the Magus way too powerfull.)
 

[Fornitus]

 LM- do you mean the penalitys and modifiers for spell shaping and such?
  School of hard Knocks - Pg 113   -   Spell Mastery

[markc]

 IMO you use Lord Res. to finf out how to craft the item. Each/many magic item's require there own Lord Res. formula to create the item.
[IMO that is the offical rule I remember but I have a nasty cold so you might want to check your self. Also the RMS Alc Comp has more options to create enchanted weapons, armor and other special items.]

 Why did I come to the above conclusion? Because there were quite a few item that could not be created by using the "creation" spell lists.

 Now in my game do I allow for SM to be used to create an item? Yes and no. If the Lord Res. formula says you have to SM this spell at this time then yes. If it does not say it then no.

MDC 

[mocking bird]

Where do you find such formula for lord research?  I looked through the alchemy companion and I didn't find anything beyond 'GM determines level of spell'.

LM - I found the section where it gives the increased cost for 'upping' spells. Do you recall where it refers to spell mastery?

[Marc R]

LM- do you mean the penalitys and modifiers for spell shaping and such?
  School of hard Knocks - Pg 113   -   Spell Mastery

There's an RM2 rule, in one of the companions, on PP costs for modifying spell perameters.

LM - I found the section where it gives the increased cost for 'upping' spells. Do you recall where it refers to spell mastery?

P47, section 4.5 "New Uses for Old Skills".

[mocking bird]

Ah - thanks.  Alas my copy of the AC is 'unsearchable'... 
And the old GM's option without a mechanic for spell mastery just like the lord research.
Fortunately it is a lot easier for GM's to enchant items than players.

[Marc R]

In poking around, I found more in depth spell spell mastery and research rules in Companion 4. (And that entry in the alchemy companion, in fact that whole page is lifted from one of the numbered companions.)

No joy finding the comprehensive PP scaling rule anywhere, checked all the numbered companions, the AC and SUC. dag.

[Dark Schneider]

IMO you use Lord Res. to finf out how to craft the item.

I think using a 25 lvl spell is not the way, should an alchemist wait to reach lvl 25 for begin to do minor enchants?.

What we need are effects for 'general #' spells, as we have many for 'weapon #' and 'armor #'. Too we could want more effects for 'weapon' and 'armor' to enrich the alchemy.

[Marc R]

The "In character" way to do it is to do the LR 25th level spell, or gain access to an already established LRed version of that enchantment from some in game source. (Like you could ask the master alchemist, and he could show you his book, which contains the instructions for the "Dwarf Slaying" enchantment).

I think we can agree that the problem here is that there's no OOC way for the GM to create or set the level for those enchantments other than judgement based on knowledge of the power level of spell lists to benchmark from.

[markc]

MB,
 In the Alch Comp pg 21 it talkes about useing Lord Res to learn how to make items. Also on page 25 it talks about Alc using thier spells to enchnat items or creating a formula for making the item many times over. Sort of like a recipe for a cake.
 In the TC on page 55 it also gives info on Lord Res and how it works in some GM's campaigns.   

 I am the first one to agree that there could be more strait forward rules for creating items. But as I said quite a few of the items in the TC have to be created by Lord Res or Alc Res as they do not follow the simple embed spell and get effect.
 I also use special Lord Res. for making elven cloaks, dwarving chain, elvin chain etc. All the nice racial special equipment.

[BTW I was since. It was just a little pneumonia]
MDC

[Dark Schneider]

How about to require an 'item lore' research instead 'lord res.' spell?. Research table in Essence Companion can be used.

This allows to low-lvl alchemist begin to research for enchants, because lvl 6 (general I) are routine or easy research maneuvers.

I use 'item lore' skill as one main skill for alchemist, I don't allow to begin to create an item directly, requiring an 'item lore' roll (but not research, that is different) to see if character knows the process to create the item. So character rolls, if success it can begin at any time (is not research so time is not needed), if failed, it can try again when increase ranks in skill (as read runes) or when it use a source (other alchemist advice, a library, etc.).

There are some points for requiring it:

1) You need to know the materials needed.
2) You have spells in a general form, for example, you can use 'armor' spell in many effects, but, how do you need to manipulate energy for the desired effect?.

As manipulating energy is not easy at all, I always requiere an 'item lore' roll, but for items that character has created before I add a bonus as with 'lock pick' for equal locks (you can add from +20 to +50 for similar maneuver).

[markc]

 House Rule:
 in my game you use Lord Res to determine the steps to create an item but one you have the steps lower level mages/enchanters can use the steps to create items.
End House Rule.

 IMO the above rule lets in a fair amount of common items that enchanters have the steps for. But to get unique items then you need Lord Res to make sure you get all the steps right.

MDC

[Old Man]

Spell Law (section 10.0) had the section on damage multiples for Elemental Attacks. Seems a similar step to go from 2x damage to 2x range or duration for 2x PP.

Ciao,
Old Man

[Marc R]

Those rules in that section became options 3.1 and 3.2 in RMC.

OM, do you recall where the reference is that keeps coming up, in terms of a comprehensive set of rules on stacking up those x2 multipliers (something like x2 range + x2 damage = x3 PP or something like that?)

A few of us seem to recall it, but none of us can come up with a book reference. (Perhaps we all had parallell evolution GMs.)

[Balhirath]

Those rules in that section became options 3.1 and 3.2 in RMC.

OM, do you recall where the reference is that keeps coming up, in terms of a comprehensive set of rules on stacking up those x2 multipliers (something like x2 range + x2 damage = x3 PP or something like that?)

A few of us seem to recall it, but none of us can come up with a book reference. (Perhaps we all had parallell evolution GMs.)

I also recall that, but I think that it only applies to the same kind of multipliers.. at least that is how I would rule it. ?