Topic: Let there be Swarms

[jskinny]

Hey Guys,

Has anyone done a generic swarm as a monster (generic bats/rats/insects) for their HARP campaign?   I was looking for one in the adventure I?m converting and I don?t feel very comfortable with the creature creation system.

I was thinking that a swarm would be large or huge with ob/db based primarily on the size.  Then they would extra vulnerable to fire and cold type attacks.

Thoughts, ideas, examples???.

Thanks

Jonas

[jasonbrisbane]

I've never been comfortable with the idea of DnD Swarms, but the rules regarding them do make sense.
You cant hit them with a mace or sword and make much of a dent - trying stirring up a hornets nest, weild a mace and see who comes out worse...

As such I would like to see similar rules for a swarm for creatures, but I believe this is what the ruling for TINY is. They are a collection of tiny creatures (usually 10-100 or 100-1000, etc) and as such I would rule that those caught in a "swarm" would suffer an attack from them.

Now you could rule that if you are in the area of effect then you cant avoid the damage - like a elemental ball attack,...
or you could say that a fighter in a plate suit is going to suffer less than a monk with no armour/clothes. thus he gets the Armour DB as bonus.

So as a proposition, how about:

SWARM (generic)
Number: 100-1000
OB: xx Tiny Attack (group) doing tiny puncture, perhaps substitute with a tiny internal poison critical
DB: Only Armour, & Magic Defense applies (Quickness and Chi maneuvers do not lessen the attacks.
Outline: The swarm covers a 5 feet area per 100 creatures and can move as a group the BMR each round (usually 5-10 feet). The group attacks one opponent en-masse and the opponent does not get quickness bonus. They must move out of the area of the swarm to avoid taking the damage. The opponent gets a RR versus Stamina to avoid the effects of the swarms attack.
--------

Of course This would take some tweaking and playtesting but might work. Each swarm would be able to do damage of a different type:

rats: tiny puncture (from teeth) PLUS RR(100) or suffer a disease.
bees/hornets/wasps: tiny internal poison critical (bees RR100; Hornets/Wasps RR(120))
Locusts/flies: tiny puncture
spiders: tiny internal poison (RR (120+?) - depending on the type of spider - really a GM discretion call

Anyone got any more ideas as to what might apply?

[runequester]

I'd have the swarm cause various penalties, possibly over a duration, rather than much real combat damage

[Hawkwind]

Overall I generally agree, but some swarms should do more damage perhaps, basing it on RL creatures that actually do swarm, such as wasps or army ants. From all the docos I've seen, if you're in the path of a swarm of army ants (which could number in the millions) then you really have no option other than run away, but I guess that the number of tiny puncture crits that a million ants could deliver would take down most PCs

Harder to judge on things like spiders - I'm not aware of any species of spider that actually swarms (excluding spiderlings), but you're correct about the poison depending on the type of spider. Taking Australian examples, a swarm of hunstmen or wolf spiders is going to hurt, but not really deliver enough venom to kill anyone, but a swarm of funnel webs - I would be setting the RR for the poison a lot higher than 120. The neuro-toxin from 1 funnel web was fatal 90% of the time before an anti-venom was developed 20 odd years ago - the number of bites you'd get from a swarm would kill a person in a matter of seconds.

But RPGs on the whole, don't really rate small spiders as much of a threat, and in a gaming sense, that's a good call - its never very heroic to die from the bite of a normal sized spider

Hawk

[jasonbrisbane]

Hawkwind, I agree totally.

This is one of the reasons I dont like Swarms - whether one or a million bites - you were still taken down by a normal size spider/etc.

Now based upon RL: I remember seeing doco's saying that elephants, rhinos, etc stampede from Army ants as when they swarm they can take down ANY animal in its path. Sure millions of ants may die but when their trillions of ants, who cares? its for the good of the colony. Apparently the figure that sticks in my head is that they can kill and strip an animal in minutes, leaving bones behind. I saw this doco more than 20 years ago but that scared the Sh*t out of me!
Also, in RL, a swarm of huntsmen wont do anything (I believe their fangs wont puncture human skin, let alone get through clothes, etc) but they would scare the heck out of you. Maybe a RR of go catatonic? (Cascading shock rules from one of the HB's?) And the WA(oz) Red-Back Spider AKA Black Widow would kill in minutes or seconds. (a swarm that is).

Any HARP monster rules would have to be very specific and have been thought out very well.
You couldnt create a "Generic Swarm" a jskinny has requested.

Just my 2cp.

[jskinny]

Jason/Hawk,

Those are some really great suggestions.  I?d prefer the swarm in this to be more of an annoyance encounter for the PCs rather than something deadly.  I thinking this encounter should build tension.  I don?t want it to be like the scarabs in the ?Mummy?.

Maybe I should have a RR check to see if anyone has an allergic reaction to insect bites.  The character who fails swells up and passes out for d10 hours.

This gives me a lot of good ideas to work with.

Thanks Guys

[Alwyn]

You could always have the swarm do a grapple attack and then once the victim is subdued let them chew away.

[Right Wing Wacko]

PC must make a Will RR and the success level gives the minus to maneuvers that round... a cascading RR.

Might work...

[Right Wing Wacko]

Or instead of Will use Stamina...

[runequester]

I actually like the idea of making it a will roll. Keeping your cool and convincing yourself the creepy crawlies cant hurt you.

If the swarm isnt outright dangerous, cause the loss of a fixed number of hits (or even 1D5 or whatnot) every turn. As long as you pass the will rolls, you can continue to act at a small penalty (-10?)

Once you blow it, you freak out and run around screaming, roll on the ground or dive into water.

Non-intelligent (sapient ? Is that the right term) creatures like dumb monsters or animals will generally freak and run away.
A military trained horse or similar gets a will roll, but at half bonus.

[Dax]

The way a friend reacts when there is only one wasp around, a Will based RR would be the right way.
OTOH big cattles seem to ignore (some) insects so perhaps Stamina should be used.

Will or Stamina is situation dependent.

OK, I know you are talking about "monsters" not normal insects, but I like to have applyable rules for normal life.

[Right Wing Wacko]

Well how about an idea point for me then?!?!?! :'(



 

[Hawkwind]

Hey Jason,

I can assure you that a huntsman's fangs can pierce human skin However, there's no major ill effects - tenderness and a bit of swelling, but gone within a couple of days.

Hawk

[jasonbrisbane]

Hey Jason,

I can assure you that a huntsman's fangs can pierce human skin However, there's no major ill effects - tenderness and a bit of swelling, but gone within a couple of days.

Hawk

Much to my sisters dismay (when she was younger), she has had a huntsman crawl over her face amnd it didnt attack or bite her. - You must have really ticked it off for it to actually Bite you!!

 ROFL !


But seriously,
You could use a Will based RR but remember that some people may use the Alternate Cascading RR versus Fear (was in a HB I believe?) Remember that the Fear result should be in addition to any hits or stun or "wound penalty" damage....

It is a good idea though...

[jasonbrisbane]

Well how about an idea point for me then?!?!?! :'(



 

Yes, yes, idea point for RWW!

[Right Wing Wacko]

Well how about an idea point for me then?!?!?! :'(



 

Yes, yes, idea point for RWW!

LOL
 
Thank you!
LOL
 

[Hawkwind]

I can assure you that a huntsman's fangs can pierce human skin However, there's no major ill effects - tenderness and a bit of swelling, but gone within a couple of days.

Much to my sisters dismay (when she was younger), she has had a huntsman crawl over her face amnd it didnt attack or bite her. - You must have really ticked it off for it to actually Bite you!!

 ROFL !

Yep, I did. It was on a scout camp when I was about 14 or 15 I guess and I didn't check my jumper before I put it on in the morning. A hunstman had crawled in there during the night. It was not pleased to have its resting place disturbed.

I was very relieved to find that it was just a hunstman, and not a funnel web. But I agree, on the whole, you have to really irritate a huntsman to make it bite.

Hawk

[The Dude]

Check out Bazaar Annual, page 47 on swarms. Granted, it deals with insect swarms, but I think rules for larger swarms can be extrapolated from there.

[jasonbrisbane]

Check out Bazaar Annual, page 47 on swarms. Granted, it deals with insect swarms, but I think rules for larger swarms can be extrapolated from there.

Thanks pfloyd!

I'll look at it when I get home today!