Author Topic: The importance of good RR skills  (Read 3518 times)

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Offline buddha

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The importance of good RR skills
« on: February 17, 2008, 06:34:39 PM »
A story of lousy RR skills and vital RR checks.


The characters in the group I run had a little run-in with a demon during our session today. I used a generic pale III demon with the basic demonic abilities from Monsters: A field guide. Apart from the fact that a pale III demon is capable fighter, Demon Fear and Soul Burn (Major) were big problems for the characters in this group. There was a Shadow Blade, a Warrior Mage and a Mage, all around 10th level, in the group.

The Warrior Mage and the Shadow Blade both use Shielding Weapon combat style and had
DBs of a bit over 100 when they had their defensive spells activated as well. The Warrior Mage had an OB off just over 100, pretty similar to the demon, while the Shadow Blade had a bit lower OB, and only used knives, so small attacks as well.

The mage don't have any DB to brag about, but has an impressive OB with his Ice Bolt and has no problem scaling it up to Huge size if need be.

The fight starts as I predicted. The Shadow Blade goes up front and just parries the demons attacks. Full parry gives him an effective DB of around 200 meaning that I as GM need an open ended roll to do more than a few hits to him. The Warrior Mage comes in from the side with an all out attack, rolling bad, but gets a stun result, but I roll good enough to make the stun check so no stun for the demon. The Mage boosts up his Ice Bolt to huge size and casts it in one round accumulating something like -60 to his roll and fail to get enough damage to even stun the demon.

And then I let them roll the RR for Demon Fear. 2 open ended rolls lets the Mage and Shadow Blade off with a scare, but the Warrior Mage soils his pants and runs away. For the next 10-5 rounds or so it's a race with the dice for the first open ended roll to get an edge in the fight. No such luck for me or the players.

Then I let loose the Soul Burn, the Shadow Blade does not make his RR and loses 12 pints of Constitution and takes 120 hits. He goes down like a sack of potatoes. The Mage casts another Ice Bolt before getting ready to teleport to safety, gets a stun result, but again I make the stun check for the demon. They accept defeat, gets ready to write off the Shadow Blade as a another dead character when the Warrior Mage comes charging in, With an OB of 120, +50 for charging in like mad so before any dice are rolled he has a good chance to stun the demon. He then rolls a 98, and follows up with a 93 and almost cuts the demon in half.

Now, all these characters have lousy RR skills. Without the open ended rolls on the fear check all characters would have run away in panic. And the poor Shadow Blade needed an open ended roll to avoid the Soul Burn. And with 2d10 averaging out to 11, that means on average 110 hits are taken by the unfortunate victim of a major Soul Burn. That is enough hits to down all but the toughest of fighters even if they don't have a scratch on them.

Does this neglect of the RR skills seem familiar to you all? Or is it something I have gotten myself into since they seldom end up in do or die situations where the RR skill is vital for their survival.

In any case they have killed a similar demon earlier and thought this an easy fight since they have gained a few levels since that time. Could be that they forgot all about the open ended roll on the Ice Bolt ant their complete failure to do any damage to the demon up until that point. So the three characters who sent yet another demon packing back home now have a lot more respect for demons. A good thing since the party is currently trying to pick a fight with a demon much tougher than this pale II demon. They are on their way to get their hand son some demon slaying weapons, but I think they will worry a lot more about the Soul Burn.
Gaute Gunleiksrud

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Offline jasonbrisbane

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Re: The importance of good RR skills
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2008, 06:51:18 PM »
We have found that basic fighters need RR:Stamina out the wazoo just to make their stun rolls. At level 4 they require close to 100 (or less), so they actually have a chance to make stun rolls.

Mages haven't taken the skills yet, but as a Mage I would recommend getting RR:Will and RR: Magic to resist others spells, otherwise they will go down like the Fighters would under similar circumstances.

Yes, I find that RR is an important set of skills for ANY player!
But the again, as GM, its occasionally funny to see the players fail and fumble their rolls like that!

PS: You might like to get that cross posted to the Story Hour
http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?board=28.0
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Offline Hawkwind

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Re: The importance of good RR skills
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2008, 09:19:26 PM »
My players learnt fairly early on in their character's careers that RRs were quite important, and worth spending some DPs on. Up until abut 3rd or 4th level they had tended to put one rank per level into each of the three RRs, but a couple of encounters with spell-casting opponents convinced them to up those levels dramatically. Certainly the party's tank has spent a lot on his stamina RR to be able to have a good chance of resisting stun.

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Offline jurasketu

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Re: The importance of good RR skills
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2008, 10:48:06 PM »
Oh. Yeah. A couple ugly incidents with a Vampire (fear, charm). Then a couple of magical traps and a Demon. And pretty soon all the characters were sporting RRs (and perceptions) in the 70s, 80s and 90s before magical charms and Blesses.

My bad guys spend high on all RRs as well. Too many spells in the Harper and Mystic lists that are just deadly if you fail a save. Twenty ranks of Confusion scaled up via an adder can be utterly devastating. The stunning spells are equally evil. If you don't have a high RR - you're toast.

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Offline jasonbrisbane

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Re: The importance of good RR skills
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2008, 12:52:14 AM »
Oh. Yeah. A couple ugly incidents with a Vampire (fear, charm). Then a couple of magical traps and a Demon. And pretty soon all the characters were sporting RRs (and perceptions) in the 70s, 80s and 90s before magical charms and Blesses.

OUCH!

Dont let me join your game -  low level players against vampires?
Demons?
Ouch!
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Offline buddha

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Re: The importance of good RR skills
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2008, 05:54:46 AM »
Yeah, RRs seem to be a big pain in the butt for the players.

I like the Cause Wound spell from the Necromancer. Always gets the fighters attention when his plate & chain does nothing to stop that large cut from suddenly appearing on his chest.

I guess the mage in the group will get all his friends together and give them a short lecture on the importance of charms and stuff to boost their ability to resist magic and stuff.

Maybe they should get some drugs too boost their RRs as well.

Surly there must be some green leaves one can chew to get an increase to will. Or at the very least an inflated ego.
Gaute Gunleiksrud

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning,
[I am in control of my addiction!]
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

Offline Right Wing Wacko

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Re: The importance of good RR skills
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2008, 07:04:16 AM »
Maybe it's just my players, but they are obsessed with having high RR's! Not a level goes by that they don't sink some ranks in their RR's.
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Offline Mattiyaho

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Re: The importance of good RR skills
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2008, 12:14:17 PM »
In all the HARP games I played RR's were life. I can't remember how many first level characters I've killed and ones I played been killed by a weak bug that attacked first and the character couldn't get his stuns off.

Offline SamwiseSeven

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Re: The importance of good RR skills
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2008, 07:21:25 PM »
Most of my players barely put anything into RRs and they have suffered for it.  They are STARTING to learn, but they do tend to put ranks in more flashy "fun" stuff.

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Offline buddha

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Re: The importance of good RR skills
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2008, 03:11:32 AM »
Most of my players barely put anything into RRs and they have suffered for it.  They are STARTING to learn, but they do tend to put ranks in more flashy "fun" stuff.


Sounds like my players.
Active skills have first priority, skills that help you do stuff.
If they advance a level right after a session where their character has failed a RR check of some kind, they tend to put a rank or two in the RR skills. But often the actual leveling up is done just before a session, and not just after one, so the have forgotten all the trouble they could have avoided with better RR skills.

When facing the class III demon in our last session all three of the characters had RRs under 50. And they were 9th and 10th level. One of them did level up after the last session and he put 3 ranks in all the RR skills.

Gaute Gunleiksrud

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning,
[I am in control of my addiction!]
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

Offline choc

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Re: The importance of good RR skills
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2008, 05:17:03 AM »
I always try to get 10 ranks until lvl 5 (in each RR), reach about 100 for lvl 10 toons (with some stuff like trinkets, herbs and things).

My ranged fighters have a bit less on RR will - sometimes it's more safe for them  to run away :p
 
My paladins and martial artists have almost always maxed out RR skills.

Offline Alwyn

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Re: The importance of good RR skills
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2008, 02:31:48 PM »
I also had my players learn the hard way to put DPs into RRs.  The group I run has one dwarven Ranger character that now has really huge RRs thanks to managing the spending of his DPs.  He usually make his saves and is around to help the rest of the group when they get in a fix.
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