Topic: Differences between Martial Law and Hack & Slash???

[frodolives]

I've got the basic HARP rulebook, and am wondering what the difference is between Martial Law and Hack & Slash. Heck, talk about the Bazaar combat versions as well if you like. I'm an old RM player from back in the early-mid 1980s so I'm very familiar with that system. Do either systems offer parry/defense modifiers based on weapon type? It seems like a quarterstaff should have an advantage over a dagger, for example.

[Right Wing Wacko]

Then you may like the combat system as presented in HARPers Bazaar #11. It is similar to the old MERP and is the system I am currently using.

Having said that, Martial Law is money well spent also. It has a plethora of nifty ideas on combat styles/manuevers, damage modification due to armor, all kinds of info on fighters and fighter-type characters, organizations/guilds, better detailed criticals, etc.
I highly recommend Martial Law!

Hack & Slash is too deadly and a little clunky in my opinion, with too many dice rolls and little variation in criticals.

I suggest picking up a copy of both Bazaar #11 and Martial Law!

[WoeRie]

Martial Law (ML) Combat is basically the core combat system but with location specific tables and damage adjustments to armor (in addition to the DB). So, this system is more deadly for unarmored people like Wizards, Swashbuckler or Martial Artists and less deadly then the core system for any kind of tanks. The book also contains a couple of other things as RWW already mentioned.

Hack & Slash (H&S) is a bit more different, because it removes the damage caps from the tables, which makes it quite deadly. However we use it since 2 years, and I was unable to kill a single player (thanks to fate points). It is a One-Roll system (as the core system), so I have absolutely no clue what RWW meant with ?a lot of dice rolls?. The bad thing with the system is that the description of the criticals is sometimes a bit bland compared to the core system or ML and because of the removed damage cap scaling of elemental spells is rather useless. But regardless, I think it is the fastest system and pretty usable. It also has an optional rule for hit locations (which modifies the damage), but I never used it.

The HB#11 Combat System is borrowed by Rolemaster Express and is very similar to the RM/MERP combat system. It has the nicest description of criticals and seems to be the deadliest one. However, I haven?t tested it, because it needs two rolls, one for to-hit and a second one for the critical (as Arms Law). We moved from RM to HARP to speed up the rolls and the play itself, so this seemed for us to be a way back.

[Hawkwind]

Most of what WoeRie posted I agree with. However, I think that the removal of the damage cap doesn't make scaling of elemental spells useless, I think its actually an advantage. By scaling the spell up, the caster is getting to roll on a different column on the table. All results on the large column are better than their equivalent results on the medium and tiny columns. So, IMO, H&S is actually better for scaling up spells.

Secondly, I most certainly don't agree that HB11 is the deadliest of the combat systems. When we play tested it we found that it was actually significantly harder to damage your opponents with HB 11 than it is with H&S.

Hawk

[Thos]

I'm with Hawkwind on this one.

[WoeRie]

Most of what WoeRie posted I agree with. However, I think that the removal of the damage cap doesn't make scaling of elemental spells useless, I think its actually an advantage. By scaling the spell up, the caster is getting to roll on a different column on the table. All results on the large column are better than their equivalent results on the medium and tiny columns. So, IMO, H&S is actually better for scaling up spells.

True, you get a few additional concussion hits but at the cost of a lower criitical (stun, penalty, bleeding), it is really not an advantage if you calculate all values (scaling penalty, casting time). The increased damage cap of ML and Core is far more effective and a far better reason to scale.

But nevertheless, this is simple math and off-topic, because at least for me it was not the reason to use a different system (but to add a few simple house-rules to H&S).

[Aaron]

I agree, woerie. Statistically it's useless to scale spells up even one step without total bonus of +100. Pure math. And that's just for one step, scaling to huge would require bonus of +180 to be mathmatically good idea. I doubt anyone has that kind of bonus.

I'm still going to use H&S, so i'm really intrested in your house rules, woerie. I don't have a clue on hov to make spell scaling more walid option. Could you post them here (even if somewhat off-topic) od PM them?

By the way, anyone thought of using ML critical modifications by armor with H&S critical modifications by hit location? It would make valid reason to use armor by piece, to protect your more vulnerable parts. And wit H&S crit mods some are really more vulnerable.

[WoeRie]

I'm still going to use H&S, so i'm really intrested in your house rules, woerie. I don't have a clue on hov to make spell scaling more walid option. Could you post them here (even if somewhat off-topic) od PM them?

Sorry, but they are far from perfect.
1) I re-introduced a damage cap of 110/120/130/140 for Tiny/Small/Medium/Large (this idea was initally from Rasyr, if I remember correctly)
2) Instead of using the Critical tables for Large and Huge Creatures I reduce the damage size against Large creatures by one and Huge creates by two degrees, to force my players to scale their spells (so Tiny Crits are useless against Large and Small useless against Huge creatures).

Maybe we should start a new thread to discuss possible houserules here, I'm still searching for a perfect solution (I thought of a fix casting time for elemental spells, like 2 rounds for bolts and 3 rounds for balls, regardless of scaling and PP cost - but this is just an idea).

[GMLovlie]

With the HB11 you can use your trusty old rm crit tables, as far as I?ve come to understand, which to me is a great advantage, considering martial arts (nerve strikes, lock and holds from MA companion for example, very nifty), magic, holy, huge creatures and all that. that is if you don?t mind that second roll for crits, which I don?t. I haven?t play-tested it yet, but will soon I hope, and then I?ll know for sure how well it works.