Topic: RMSS/SM:P Stat rule looking for comments

[markc]

 I am thinking of allowing my players to spend some of the DP's to get a temporary stat bonus of +1 to +3 depending on how many Dp's they spend. The idea is the character is doing some excersis [physical, mental, magical etc] that alows the the tempoary bonus. I realise one of the big rules in RPG's is not to take anything away from the PC but I think it has a place in my game world.
 Anyway I am thinking of the stat bonus as 1/2/3 and the DP cost as 3/8/15. This provides a temporary bonus to the stat the is the result of the PC "working out" the required stat some how by doing mental, physical, magical or psionic means. If you do not keep up your excersises they you lose the bonus after a period of time set by the GM [Which I have not thought of yet]. Also if you take the +3 or +2 stat bonus it degrades by 1 for each time period. So it goes from +3 to +2 to +1 to +0.

 [I think the DP cost may be a little low for the +1 and I am thinking of boosting the DP cost to 4/9/15. Besides the problem with adjusting the PC character record I do not see a problem with it. Since I the GM keep the offical record I think I can keep a hold of the misspend stat points as well as the degrading of the stat bonus when it comes time. It will be some ink as the char. sheets are almost allways 9 pages long but I can send the players the new offical sheet and have the print them at home.
 I also keep track of when the player has spend DP's and on what so I know what level they buy stuff. examp. 3.0,3.3,3.6,4.0
 I think the only other problem I can see is that I give out DP's at 30%, 30%, 40% of the level and thier might be not enough point at the 40% mark for a lot of stat buying. Which IMO is good since they were to be working the stat out for the whole peroid. So I can track 3 peroids and then take off the bonus.
 I am also thinking of providing an automatic bonus to the stat of +1-+3 if the player has the space in the temporary stat. Son in a way they are not getting something taken away but instead buying a stat raise and getting a bonus for a short period of time. If they do not have room in the tep stat then the lose the bonus. Note I also have PC's roll every level to see if the po. stat goes up, maybe a bonus to the roll equle to the tem stat bonus is also worrented.]

Note: Sorry if the spelling is really messed up I just took my sleeping pills but I wanted to get this out before bed. 

Thanks MDC

[Ecthelion]

Have you taken a look at HARP Lite and the stat gain rules in there? It uses a somewhat different approach and allows for the stat values to be increased using DPs, not temporarily but permanently.

[vroomfogle]

The problem with having DP's be used for temporary benefits is that DPs are a way to measure overall power (because they are directly tied to level), and if one loses DP-bought benefits then level becomes less of an indicator of a being's power.

Think about this in terms of an extreme example.  Let's say that a Level 10 character uses their DP's every level to buy some sort of temporary benefit (either your stat rule above or possibly other temporary effects), and at some point they lose those benefits.    They are "10th" level but have the same bonuses/skills/power as a Level 1 character.    In a more moderate example let's say by level 10 the character has spent the equivalent of a level's worth of DPs on temporary benefits.  They now are the equivalent of 9th level, not 10th.   Now granted, variable DP's do provide some variability in using level as a power level indicator but it's still a decent estimate.   It would become less so as one adds temporary benefits, abilities, or effects that are bought with Development Points.

[Setorn]

I agree with Vroomfogle with one caveat that very low levels of DP spent on temporary benefits would remain within the DP variation per level that he mentioned.  I would then only allow a +1 at the cost of 4 DP.  The other costs would greatly influence the meaning of level as a measure of power and expertise.  I would suggest limiting the expenditure to only one stat at a time or type of stat (Physical, Mental, Social, etc…) reflecting time constraints and assisting the meaning of level.  Four DP a level is within the DP variation of a PC but eight plus would be pushing it. 

[vroomfogle]

Good point Setorn - limiting this to a few DP's at a time would be ok.   I use a fixed number of DPs for everyone, but even with a fixed number a few DPs will likely not make a large difference.   

Personally I'd prefer to use a system of buying stat gains with DPs (instead of the current random method) rather then using a temporary bonuses.

As far as costing goes, a permanent stat bonus, in RMSS Talent Law (or RMFRP CharLaw) it's about 4 DPs/+1 (and in RMC this would be about 2 DPs/+1 bonus)...so I think that your cost for a temporary bonus is too high even at 3.    Furthermore rather then raising the cost for a second "rank"  a la 3/8/15 you are best off just limiting the total expenditure to a few DPs as Setorn mentioned above.    With this in mind I'd suggest a cost of 2 DPs/+1 with a maximum of +2 in a single stat (in a level, or at one time).

[markc]

 Thanks All,
 
 First I would like to say I have read HARP and played it for about 3months. I like and dislike it at the same time as RMSS is really my thing. To me the skill system of RMSS is the big sticking point and wins me over any and every time. Until I find something better I am going to stick with it.

 Vroom, Setorn
 In my game I have re-costed the talent costs for Stat Bonus and do not let player buy talents after character generation. Off the top of my head the cost for a +1 stat bonus is 10 TP, +2 15, +3 25, +4 50. But this can number can be in flux depending on race, game universe, magic, psy etc.
 I have thought of letting players buy some talents after character generation but to me it does not make a lot of sense, unles the truely unusual happens and then I will give them a number of TP to use on the chart. I also have increased the cost of almost every talent and droped a lot also.
 I do agree that level is a good mesuring stick for power and I also use skill bonus as a way let them know if they are qualified for a job. I use 75% from the top 5 and 25% from the bottom 5 stats to get the number of DP's per level. As I said most PC's are in the 70 to 90 DP range per level by the time they are level 4. But as we all know statisticly their are those who fall above and below the curve. This puts the well above the curve in terms of the average person which in my game most people are. I have thrown out that you need to have 90's in the prime stat's so anyone can get any profession they want and the bonuses that go along with them. One exception is hybrid casters, arcane casters and if I create psy-magic hybrids they will have special rules also. But in general I have 50%-65% of the population be laymen and the rest be some profession related to their background, job, race etc. I can also say that I use the above formula for people stats also, so this might be a good way to represent the average joe buffing up and then losing those muscles.
 I also like the idea that you can only polish up on 1 stat in a category at a time. I have been thinking of making a 3 category list for stats with the heading being Physical, Mental and Social like the do in WoD and I think Ars Magica. [It has been a long time for Ars Magica]. In the past I have thoguht about extending the stat block to 5 in each category. But some allways have more tha others and I can think of no way to make them even. If I did go 3 categories I think I woul go 25%/50%/25% for the DP's given or maybe even adjust the % a little up or down depending on the profession of the PC. [But that is another thought.]

Thanks all, I think I will let it rattle around some more as I do not know when I will run a game again. It is sort of nice being a player for a change after many years of GMing.

 Please keep the thoughts and comments coming.

 MDC

[Dark Schneider]

Yep, I think too that anything using DPs must be permanent, as DPs are the character 'capacities'.

For temporal, maybe you could use a 'training', that consumes TIME for the required bonus (as with alchemy). So you can require 2 weeks of training (think about boxers) for a ST +1, 1 month for a +2...
I think this 'training' can give you a bonus to a specific task, in the example of boxer, it could give bonus to 'boxing' skill, think in this bonus as reverse of the 'improvisation' in the 'poetic improvisation' (see SOHK), as you are in the opposite side, you are doing what have you trained for recently, as when you study before a test, repeat the test 3 weeks later 

[markc]

 How about if I add to the pot an extra stat gain roll for every +1 bonus and they take the best of the rolls. Please remember that I have toned down the talents very much and axed many of the unbalanced ones. So the talent list and powers are very down to earth. If thier is an powerful ability then  it costs a lot and you are going to pay for it, in TP or a level to gain TP.
 One again I would like to say I do not allow players to buy talents after char. gen. unles it is a very unusual event. I think it has happeded once in the 5 years I was GMing RMSS/SM:P/BlackOps.
MDC