Topic: Spell fumbles

[Dark Schneider]

I'd like to modify the spell fumbles rules, but in a balanced way, and the 'swashbuckling' skill is a good reference.

When you do a weapon fumble, you can make a 'swashbuckling' roll to evade it, then I am thinking of use a SCSM roll with a modifier for the same. I think the modifier could be -50, and then allow to player decide if he wants a SCSM roll to evade it, because as with any skill roll, you can get worse the situation (as a 'total failure' with swashbuckling, 'stun removal', etc.), remember that you can roll the spell fumble with the double or triple of your SCSM modifiers, BUT then, and this is important, I'd not include the -50 to modifier, only the usual modifiers (as PP used).

As note we don't use the 'PP used' as SCSM trigger, but if you need to roll a SCSM for any other reason (armor, not voice, etc.) the we add that modifier. Too we don't require a SCSM if your SCSM armor penalty is +0 (trascend armor), because is tedious (the 'PP used' trigger is tedious too) and we see it not appropriate (Paladins rolling for every spell they cast?).

But, how about the 'spell fumble evading' rule, what mod. you would use?.

[rdanhenry]

I was really surprised this never got any response. I think it is an interesting idea. I would make it a Power Manipulation skill. Note, however, that swashbuckling only can *optionally* negate *some* types of fumbles. I would make any spell failure limiting skill have a fairly limited effect. Maybe if it succeeds, you can modify your result up or down according to the number of ranks you have in the skill (using Ambush as a model). Or maybe you can just subtract your skill bonus, but then you might need to make it a restricted skill to be balanced.

You could also offer a Talent to reduce spell failure, especially if you allow Talents to be purchased with experience.

I have concerns about game balance, but a method of reducing spell failures could be good. It does need some limitations. Given that Arcane relies on nasty spell failure as a balance mechanism, if you use Arcane such a skill becomes a concern (I don't like the Arcane Companion much, so it doesn't concern me). You also might want to restrict the use of the skill to avoid giving too much away. Make it unusable on Spell Mastered spells (safety techniques and on-the-fly modification don't mix) or if certain spell-casting restrictions are not met (no silent Essence casting and spell failure reduction). Make it a way to make *routine* spell casting safer, not a safety net for those doing riskier spell casting and I think it can be a reasonable skill.

As for modifiers, I think that using the modifiers for SCSMs would work okay.

[Dark Schneider]

I would make any spell failure limiting skill have a fairly limited effect.

Of course in this case the fumbles for 'I' type spells is not allowed, GM should not advice player for this type of fumbles.

Well, as you say (arcane is a good example), we always have a fixed failure (UMR 01-02, 01-04, etc.), and then I'd like to differentiate novice casters and expert casters.

I think in the SCSM idea because IMO your expertise casting spells is the spell list bonus, you can have lvl.30 but if you only have 2 ranks in a spell list you are a noob in that type of spells.
In addition, with levels you can adquire skills and/or talents (if allowed in your game system) to increase the SCSM bonus.

The final result is that IMO using SCSM is a good 'casting-meter' of how good are you casting spells in general. See that you can have few ranks in a spell list but if you paid for talents and ranks in 'magical language' for that spell group you can have a good SCSM for that list. For that I say "in general".

As for modifiers, I think that using the modifiers for SCSMs would work okay.

Well, I was talking about adding another penalty (that -50 or any other) as your original roll was a fumble, but in case of re-fumble (SCSM no success) don't add it to the fumble roll (remember that you must add the SCSM modifiers to fumble roll if the case).

But as you say using the basic modifiers can work because with results like '...you can cast the spell next round...' you really loss the next round as you don't have spell to cast (remember you fumble before), but you are blocked until finishing the current casting process.