Author Topic: Ebchanted metals  (Read 1662 times)

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Offline Malim

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Ebchanted metals
« on: October 14, 2019, 10:50:48 AM »
I'm a blacksmith... How do I make a +15 magic sword?
Where do I find the enchant metal spell?
Sir Elor Blacke knight of Helyssa, Kytari Fighter lvl 25 (RM2)
Malim Naruum, Yinka Lord Bashkor lvl 27  (RM2)

Offline Majyk

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Re: Ebchanted metals
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2019, 12:32:43 PM »
Alchemy Companion is your best friend for listings of metals needed(White Alloy) and the different spells and time required.

Offline Malim

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Re: Ebchanted metals
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2019, 01:50:29 PM »
But how do you actually make enhanced steel? With a
What spell, I got all rm2 books.
Sir Elor Blacke knight of Helyssa, Kytari Fighter lvl 25 (RM2)
Malim Naruum, Yinka Lord Bashkor lvl 27  (RM2)

Offline ronald

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Re: Ebchanted metals
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2019, 09:10:37 PM »
To enchant, Spell Law, Alchemist Base Spell Lists, Enchanting Ways; p.78 in single volume Spell Law, 1984 (ICE1400)
To craft item, p.79 Inorganic Skills list.

pp 16 - 21 in same give magical research and item creation guidelines.

Offline Malim

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Re: Ebchanted metals
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2019, 04:11:36 PM »
Nope.. that just "makes" the weapon +10 from enchant.
I want to know how i make a steel bar magic so that a weapon smith can craft the weapon with his skill.
Sir Elor Blacke knight of Helyssa, Kytari Fighter lvl 25 (RM2)
Malim Naruum, Yinka Lord Bashkor lvl 27  (RM2)

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Ebchanted metals
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2019, 09:34:30 PM »
Nope.. that just "makes" the weapon +10 from enchant.
I want to know how i make a steel bar magic so that a weapon smith can craft the weapon with his skill.

It sounds like you are referring to 'enchant a lump of steel to +10 so anything made from it is automatically +10'? 

That is interesting.  That removes the spell casting burden of the blacksmith but may put different qualifications on the smith.

One approach you can use is in Elemental Companion.  This will open up a new set of adventures for your PCs.  The quality of the Elemental Forge determines the quality of the material produced.  (+5, +10, etc.)  EC pg. 138  Your PCs will need to find the material first, then find the appropriate furnace/forge to manipulate the material.  Whether or not 'a normal' blacksmith can work the material will be a GM-discretion sort of thing.  You would need to establish the rules regarding the manipulation of the finished product.  Does the normal blacksmith need to have an elemental forge to soften the material enough to work it or will their standard furnace be able to work the magical +10 metal?

A by-product of the materials from EC is that you can allow a secondary effect of the material.  Example: Peraltoid is a blend of elemental air and elemental earth.  The lowest level forge it can be produced in is an Elemental Lesser Forge and it yields +10 quality.  However, peraltoid weapons are considered to be "...of dancing..." type.
 
" Such a weapon can leave the wielder's hand and and fight on its own with an OB equal to three times its normal OB"  (Elemental Companion pg 139)

You could decide if the weapon is merely +10 or if it also has the ability to fight on its own.

Conversely, High Steel is made from elemental earth and is +10 and can be forged in an Elemental Furnace while Low Steel would be +5 in an Elemental Furnace and +10 in an Elemental Lesser Forge and +15 in an Elemental Greater Forge and so on.   
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Offline brole

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Re: Ebchanted metals
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2019, 05:14:47 AM »
I've had a look and I found the rules confusing.
There seem to be contradictions so I think the GM needs to write clarification into their game.

Enchanted Steel I (Alch p15) is described as +10 "magically worked.....creating low steel".
I'm confused here, is it Enchanted Steel I or low steel ?
Is the +10 magic or not?

However:

Work Low Steel from Inorganic Skills spell list describes a +5 bonus and non-magic alloys. (Alch p84).
So is the bonus for low steel +10 as on p15 or +5 as per p84 ?
I'm assuming this spell gives a non-magic bonus.

For your scenario regarding creation of Enchanted Steel I, I'm thinking General II from Enchanting Ways (cast for 10 days maybe) would make 'low steel' into Enchanted Steel I but this runs counter to the rule book.


But how do you actually make enhanced steel? With a
What spell, I got all rm2 books.
e crits all round

Offline Malim

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Re: Ebchanted metals
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2019, 10:21:42 AM »
If we keep to alchemy list from SL and maybe Alchemy Companion I could not find any spells that enchant a lumb(bar) or steel so a normal blacksmith could work it. Depending on his skill I would say he can decrease bonus because of poor skill or even increase bonus if he is really good.
But its the same with alot of crafting skills from ROC2.. there is no explanation on how to actually use them in practice.
Sir Elor Blacke knight of Helyssa, Kytari Fighter lvl 25 (RM2)
Malim Naruum, Yinka Lord Bashkor lvl 27  (RM2)

Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Ebchanted metals
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2019, 08:01:35 PM »
No, the Alchemy rules do not support what you are asking for. You need inherently magical metal (which is expensive) or help by an Alchemist during the working of the item. If you are an ordinary blacksmith, you could make a +20 sword that would be inherently magical by using mithril alloy for the sword, but mithril is valued at 100 times gold, so that's very pricey.

Now, RM is very flexible and you have a variety of options you could use to facilitate your goal, if you are the GM or the GM is willing to embrace one of these approaches.

1) A new spell list. Alchemical spell lists are designed to support creating magic items, not magical raw materials, but that doesn't mean a new list couldn't be developed to work that way. There are a lot of issues to be considered in doing so, as you probably don't want one high-level enchantment on a one-ton bar of metal to allow cranking out nigh-endless +20 weapons.

2) New materials. Existing magical metals have high bonuses and are very expensive. Cheaper (though still dear) and less-powerful metals could be introduced with lower bonuses.

3) New crafting rules. Extremely high skill (at least a bar of 20 ranks, I should think, but quite possibly more) could allow masterworks to be produced with inherent enchantments simply because the crafter manages to put something of himself into the item.

4) Some means of just adding "magicality" to an item. Let the blacksmith make an ordinary +15 sword (white alloy... assuming the tech level allows), then haul it to the magical pool where dipping the sword will turn it into a magical +15 sword or whatever plot-device method the GM prefers.

Of these, option 2 is probably the simplest to implement. Alchemy Companion has some options in that regard already.
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Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Ebchanted metals
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2019, 08:12:30 PM »
I've had a look and I found the rules confusing.
There seem to be contradictions so I think the GM needs to write clarification into their game.

Enchanted Steel I (Alch p15) is described as +10 "magically worked.....creating low steel".
I'm confused here, is it Enchanted Steel I or low steel ?
Is the +10 magic or not?

Magical. Regular low steel is +5.

Quote
However:

Work Low Steel from Inorganic Skills spell list describes a +5 bonus and non-magic alloys. (Alch p84).
So is the bonus for low steel +10 as on p15 or +5 as per p84 ?
I'm assuming this spell gives a non-magic bonus.

That creates a +5 bonus non-magical item, starting with low steel, which has an inherent non-magical +5 bonus. The spell is largely for enchanting an item made (partly) from low steel, but can also simply be used to create normal low-steel items without relying on putting a bunch of ranks into ordinary skill.

Adding a +5 bonus (when using Work Low Steel as part of the process of creating a magical item) to this will provide an item of "Enchanted Steel", but unless I'm forgetting some obscure list (and given the wealth of possibilities in Alchemy Companion, that is not entirely impossible) there's no mechanic to create Enchanted Steel with a generic +10 bonus.
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Offline brole

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Re: Ebchanted metals
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2019, 07:03:53 AM »
One thing I did notice is the system of Alchemy in Rolemaster seems to be that the item is pre-made, by a craftsman/blacksmith etc. otherwise the Alchemist needs to use 'Make' spells - "only required if the material to be worked, xxx, is only available in the form of raw materials" from RM2 Alch 3.2.

If you want your blacksmith character to have possession of the finished magical items rather than the Alchemist who receives your 'raw product' ie the forged and finished sword; then you'll need a new spell list to enchant the ore or better yet find an Enchanted Steel deposit in the game world.

The way I read it is the system is designed that a craftsman completes the item and then it is sent to an Alchemist for enchanting.
Thus it seems that Enchanted Steel is 'created' via the Enchanting Ways spell list on a per item basis.

Otherwise you would mine it from the game world. Likewise new spell lists and requirements for smelting, forging, quenching etc. mined enchanted ore would follow.

Regarding the points below, my view is point 1 would be used for enchanting ores for a blacksmith to work.
Point 2 - I don't think new materials are necessarily needed. Just clarification where existing materials exist and how can be reached.
Point 3 - Maybe extremely high skill is not a requisite - rather treat as similar skill - as long as required special tools are available, e.g. magical anvil, +20 hammers, elemental forge etc.
Point 4 - This looks like what Enchanting Ways does already.

No, the Alchemy rules do not support what you are asking for. You need inherently magical metal (which is expensive) or help by an Alchemist during the working of the item. If you are an ordinary blacksmith, you could make a +20 sword that would be inherently magical by using mithril alloy for the sword, but mithril is valued at 100 times gold, so that's very pricey.

Now, RM is very flexible and you have a variety of options you could use to facilitate your goal, if you are the GM or the GM is willing to embrace one of these approaches.

1) A new spell list. Alchemical spell lists are designed to support creating magic items, not magical raw materials, but that doesn't mean a new list couldn't be developed to work that way. There are a lot of issues to be considered in doing so, as you probably don't want one high-level enchantment on a one-ton bar of metal to allow cranking out nigh-endless +20 weapons.

2) New materials. Existing magical metals have high bonuses and are very expensive. Cheaper (though still dear) and less-powerful metals could be introduced with lower bonuses.

3) New crafting rules. Extremely high skill (at least a bar of 20 ranks, I should think, but quite possibly more) could allow masterworks to be produced with inherent enchantments simply because the crafter manages to put something of himself into the item.

4) Some means of just adding "magicality" to an item. Let the blacksmith make an ordinary +15 sword (white alloy... assuming the tech level allows), then haul it to the magical pool where dipping the sword will turn it into a magical +15 sword or whatever plot-device method the GM prefers.

Of these, option 2 is probably the simplest to implement. Alchemy Companion has some options in that regard already.
e crits all round